Well, for the record - i ended up buying an old Echo Control frame from someone, in real good condition.
Currently set up with my long Toxsin fork (435mm axle to crown). Wheelbase 1070, BB rise +20-25. Initial impression - MUCH easier to handle and pull up, but still a trials rig by all means. can't wait to take it out for a proper ride.
Well, i decided to think a bit outside the box and did a short test with a very short AM/DH stem - Funn 45mm (instead of the taller and longer 120 17deg trialtech i had).
So much easier to lift the front wheel. Bunnyhops much quicker, can actually pull a decent manual (though modulation on a tar covered rim with maggies is not the finest:)
I know that from a trials perspective it looks like shit, and if i were any good i'd feel that it messed up most of my leverage on the front wheel, but it feels much more natural than i expected. I think i'll keep this setup for a while and see how it works out. In the meantime i got my eye on an older Echo control...
Hen's teeth... that could be a proper name for a frame.
Not a new frame by any means, but they do sound like a good option indeed. A friend of mine offered to sell me his, but he busted them almost beyond recognition so i dont think they'll hold for much longer
I also have the option to trade frames with a friend who has a BR Raven 4.0. i know, its doesnt really fit my genera description but maybe its just short enough to suit my needs. Any insight on those? (were they also prone to break/crack/melt/spontaneously combust? )
I've got pretty wide rims at the moment. forgot the exact width, but pretty much as wide as i can go. its not just a matter of tire pressure. I want a bike that i can bunnyhop and manual a bit easier. With such a large frame, and me not being the most flexible person, i can't manual that bike if you put a gun to my head. Yes, if i train 5 times a week i'll probably get it eventually... but still every move takes a lot more commitment and effort.
From the specs i've seen its simply way too short, and the geometry looks even more ridiculous compared to the Zebdi.
Yeah, the "because" were also in my head for a while but they're hard to come by. See, thats the funny thing, everyone keeps saying that there are many options out there, but nobody can name anything specific. something like the zebdi's just a bit more modern i guess... (Perhaps i should just find some welder dude in china that can fabricate something for me out of thin air (A) )
I've tried plenty of modern street bikes, and they were all pretty horrible at trials. Ridden several modern pure trials frames too, but that's not really what i'm after anyway.
Seriously though, if i'm that wrong, could you please give me a couple of specific models to check out? (except for Inspired). That's the whole point of this thread basically... getting some good options.
A frame that is:
1. reasonably priced and not too rare in 2nd hand classifieds
2. Has decent trials performance (strictly urban stuff, no natural or comp trials), but still balanced, not overly difficult to bunnyhop/manual/spin. And can even be taken to the occasional pumptrack for a workout (cuz that will just be funny on a pure trials frame)
3. speaking in numbers (roughly) : WB 1035-1070, Chainstay 380-390 , head angle 73-71deg. BB rise 10-30mm.
4. Could possibly go well with a short (60-80mm) fork up front. This is not a must, though.
I hear what you're saying and you made some truly valid points. I'm sure the Hex has many advantages, but it's out of my budget at the moment, new or used (or any other inspired for that matter )
For the amount of trials riding i get to do, and the shitloads of money i regularly spend just servicing my XC and Trail bikes, i can't justify spending that much. Maybe at some point in the future if i get to ride much more and i can justify totally new rig.
Also, as good/better as the newer frames are, it doesn't mean the older ones were bad. For my skill set, they're probably more than enough. Yeah, pure trials sure have evolved a huge deal over the years, even until recently. however, In the world of street-trials, i truly don't see many other valid options out there. The only name that people keep muttering is "inspired", nothing else. That, and a few knockoffs here and there which are seriously hard to come by. Sadly, that leaves the PlanetX on the table... as ridiculous as that sounds. Most available modern street bikes go with a much more "dirt-jump" geometry which is even worse for trials. Of course, i'll be happy to hear that there are many alternatives that i missed (26" only)...
what worries me more is what you said about PX's cracking... first time i've heard that (granted i dont hang around in trials forums that much). my older jackflash took a quite a beating and the tubes felt insanely strong. But thanks for the heads up!
I know they're not as intended for trials as the Toxsin, and thats exactly what i'm after. something that i can bunnyhop and manual easier, but still pedal kick and gap a bit...
(i tried manualling my Toxsin the other day and almost popped my shoulders out trying to get it up
Thanks, but i actually got some family visiting in the UK, so i wasn't looking for any shipping to begin with. It is certainly cheaper than what it was 4 years ago. i remember trying to oreder a handlebar from Tarty, and i think the shipping alone was £30-40.
I think i'll eventually go for a decent condition Jack Flash again. set it up with 80-100mm fork, or even a rigid one, and all other parts from the Toxsin.
I tried doing some trials on an Octane One Zircus just last night. with 15mm bb drop (with a 130mm fork), it felt pretty horrible for trials. I think a Zebdi / JackFlash is as "streetish" as i'm willing to go. They're still very capable for trials, while not feeling like a dj/street bike.
Murga - Thanks for the advice. i haven't even checked FedEx this time (or any other service). i did quite an extensive research about shipping 3 years ago when i got the toxsin. i dont remember which service i used eventually, but even the cheapest one was quite painfully expensive. I got other ways of picking it up from someone... probably than just dumping money on bogus charges and freights costs
(funny thing is, it would've actually cost me less to buy a plane ticket to the UK and back, plus a night's accommodation, than it was to ship the whole bike here...)
Mark, i'm from Israel. Getting stuff shipped here can be insanely expensive. When i bought the Toxsin from the UK i ended up paying more in freight costs than i paid for the bike itself... (quote i got from some parcel service: "apparently it will cost us less to ship it to the moon and back, than to ship it to Israel...".
So i'm looking for something used in the UK, which i can bring back home with me when i visit or with a friend...
There are no local Inspired dealers (MTB scene is INSANE here, but trials... not so much)