dann2707 Posted July 14, 2013 Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 One of the good things about not working at TartyBikes any more is that when I see you aimlessly spouting shit about things you don't understand, I don't have to give any kind of f**k any more. This is one of those times. It also makes you look massively fake and isn't great for tartybikes image imo not that you'd give a f**k anymore.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 14, 2013 Report Share Posted July 14, 2013 Fake in what sense? EDIT: Also, you're wrong in your assumption I don't "give a f**k any more" about TartyBikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 It also makes you look massively fake and isn't great for tartybikes image imo not that you'd give a f**k anymore.. It's fairly obvious the "I don't have to give any kind of f**k anymore" is in relation to FamilyBIker, not Tartybikes and its customers as a whole, so it doesn't make him look fake and it has absolutely no bearing on Tartybikes so doesn't affect them in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Edit: Leon. You're dead right. Carbon fibre is carbon fibre. Congratulations! What dragged you down from a First Class Hons to a Third was the rest of it. I can see where you went wrong - it's unfortunate as if you hadn't made that one mistake of totally disregarding cognitive reasoning you would've ended up just fine. It might "appear to be just plastic" to you (which it doesn't, really), but it's not. If you'd've stuck with your reasoning, you'd've arrived at the conclusion that where carbon fibre is carbon fibre, carbotecture is carbotecture. Carbotecture != plastic. It involves plastic, but is not comprised entirely of it. I had MT2s which were also made from it and I can assure you they are not "just plastic". I agree, some things aren't in need a flashy name, but things that are [edit2: entirely very] different from something else do require some form of distinction. If that goes by way of it's name, so be it. I tried to get through that, I really did but I kept falling asleep. You seem very passionate about plastic so I'm sorry if any feelings were hurt. I'm not talking about your discs. I'm glad they work, I'm very happy for you. The point is whatever Crap they use for the modern HS33 rim brake is much worse than the aluminium they used to use, and a lot of people agree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) me for example. and @mark w:why do you always "give a f..." for everything technically related i write on here? you couldnt care less if it doesnt give you something to "falsify" my statements. its clear to see its my opinion on carbotecture stuff,at work i see loads and loads of f**cked up hs brakes since carbotecture appeared on the market,and loads of 2004/5 models on bikes that were used in salty winters,and theyre doing fine. thats mostly for trekking though,but hows a brake supposed to survive trials use if trekking use kills it? no beef intended,but it seems its some peoples hobby on here to try to "debunk" others opinions Edited July 15, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 I tried to get through that, I really did but I kept falling asleep. You seem very passionate about plastic so I'm sorry if any feelings were hurt. I'm not talking about your discs. I'm glad they work, I'm very happy for you. The point is whatever Crap they use for the modern HS33 rim brake is much worse than the aluminium they used to use, and a lot of people agree. I'll forgive you since you admitted to falling asleep - but my point was that the MT2 levers are made of the same stuff as the HS33s, and they're definitely more than "just plastic". (Talking about the lever bodies here. Not sure about the blades.) I purposely kept that brief - if you still can't understand then there's no help for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 They're completely different levers pushing the pistons in different directions... I have no problem understanding it. I just found it extremely drawn out and unnecessarily long and boring. I know lots of words too, I don't feel the need to use every single one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 actually carbotecture is plastic mixed up with carbon fibres,its just like theres a carbon wrapping company next door to maguras production place and they get the scrap parts from them,shred it and mix it in their plastic compound. or would one seriously BUY carbon fibre to shred it and mix it with cheap polymer? haha me for example. and @mark w:why do you always "give a f..." for everything technically related i write on here? you couldnt care less if it doesnt give you something to "falsify" my statements. its clear to see its my opinion on carbotecture stuff,at work i see loads and loads of f**cked up hs brakes since carbotecture appeared on the market,and loads of 2004/5 models on bikes that were used in salty winters,and theyre doing fine. thats mostly for trekking though,but hows a brake supposed to survive trials use if trekking use kills it? no beef intended,but it seems its some peoples hobby on here to try to "debunk" others opinions I "gave a f**k" previously because you were trying to imply you had an understanding of what was going on, whereas you were basically just making up bullshit about products we were selling, then using the fact you work at a bike shop to try and lend some form of credibility to it. For example, in your previous post (I quoted it above this 'cos the new TF quote system sucks...), you allude to them having to cut corners on materials because no-one would want to buy good materials to "shred" - it comes across pretty clearly that you don't have any clue about what actually goes into their 'carbotecture' material, yet you're happy to just chat shit about it. When I worked at TartyBikes, people starting unfounded rumours about products was one of the most frustrating things to deal with (Rusevelt and the alloy Echo SL Freewheel driveshells is a f**king prime example) and you seemed to be someone who liked to do that kind of thing, either intentionally or unintentionally. That's why I sometimes have to (well, had to) "'debunk' others opinions" because they pass opinion off as fact. In what way were the brakes "f**king up" by the way? In terms of trekking vs. trials, the conditions they get used in will be quite a bit different so depending on how they're failing it could be something more specific to what they're ridden in. As an example, we had customers who used to regularly send us back "broken" Echo SL freewheels that were just full of sand because they rode rocks on/in beaches a lot and seemingly couldn't work out how to look after their bikes. By contrast, a street rider wouldn't have that problem. That's specifically down to the conditions the bikes are subjected to rather than a design-specific thing. Leon - The 2011 levers not being as good wasn't down to them being "plastic", I think it was just not such a great design. As Flipp said, the MT2 brakes seem to feel pretty good and they're made out of the same material. The design is radically different though, and that seems to have improved things. The latest brakes have followed the principles used in the MT-series levers so should feel better. It'd be interesting to know how people would've received the 2011-and-onwards brakes if Magura hadn't mentioned they were made from their carbotecture stuff. The whole "they're just plastic" thing seems to be the back-bone for most people's issues with them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 The point is whatever Crap they use for the modern HS33 rim brake is much worse than the aluminium they used to use, and a lot of people agree. I'm not so sure... did you ever see a snapped ally Magura lever? Those things look like an Aero chocolate bar inside! Having said that I haven't used one of the 'modern' plastic composite levers so cant really comment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 I did snap 1 or 2, I saw inside yeah, they're definitely more brittle than the plastic ones but you have to hit it really hard to snap it, not doing the clamp up too tight can help that too. If I did 1 or 2 in 16 years then I'm not complaining. Leon - The 2011 levers not being as good wasn't down to them being "plastic", I think it was just not such a great design. As Flipp said, the MT2 brakes seem to feel pretty good and they're made out of the same material. The design is radically different though, and that seems to have improved things. The latest brakes have followed the principles used in the MT-series levers so should feel better. It'd be interesting to know how people would've received the 2011-and-onwards brakes if Magura hadn't mentioned they were made from their carbotecture stuff. The whole "they're just plastic" thing seems to be the back-bone for most people's issues with them... It was definitely a bad design for plastic, if that was any kind of metal then it probably would have worked. But the people who said the flex of a 2011 HS33 was down to the brake being too powerful were talking absolute bollocks. The material is not stiff enough for that lever body design. I hated mine the second I put it on, I'm not sure I even knew what it was made of, but I gave it a chance for a couple of rides & it came straight off, and that was only a 2 finger blade. The old plastic (real plastic) HS11's etc from the late 90's never flexed that badly. Hopefully the new ones work because they look alright & I'm sick of chasing up levers from 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamilyBiker Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) ^^tensile tocco cough cough Edited July 15, 2013 by FamilyBiker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 I like my 2011's! When set up right they're actually pretty stiff albeit not as stiff but it has a tiny weeny little bit if flex in it like when you pull a vee too much and you can feel it stretching a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 was hoping there was going to more information on the new brakes in here but it's just flipp and mark calling people idiots again 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualjoe Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 It's good to see they beefed up the lever pivot bolt. The 2011 one was way too thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I got bored with people slagging off the 'plastic' levers, so here's the reason for the 2011 brakes being 'flexy': 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTTY___ Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Having rode with 04, 05's and currently 2011 HS33's. I'm more than impressed. Comfortable! Dont know what this flex is? but its pretty non existent for me (Onza Genesis 20" Frame & Fork (No Booster)). There also water bled and had 0 issues to date. Bikes been running since February 2013 and its been in my possession since 25th May 2013 still with 0 issues. Even ride with people who have 05's and they love my brakes. meh, each to there own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon-trials Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I use 2011 maguras there spot on for me I love em I never liked the 05's I got fed up of braking them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 To be fair, I used 2 sets of 11's with 4 finger levers. One oil bled and one water bled, both worked brilliantly even with flex in the lever though I preferred the 05's for ease of bleeding (with water) and looks. Will probably buy one of these to try as they look quality so will fully judge when I've tried it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOTTY___ Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) To be fair, I used 2 sets of 11's with 4 finger levers. One oil bled and one water bled, both worked brilliantly even with flex in the lever though I preferred the 05's for ease of bleeding (with water) and looks. Will probably buy one of these to try as they look quality so will fully judge when I've tried it out. Admittedly bleeding with the syringe is a little off putting. But bath bleeding (How i have always done it) is no more difficult than a 04 or 05 magura. Edited July 18, 2013 by SCOTTY___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I got bored with people slagging off the 'plastic' levers, so here's the reason for the 2011 brakes being 'flexy': Surely it's not all down to lever length though, the design of the product must depict it's ability to flex more too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 It's not, but the bodies on the '11 brakes aren't flexy despite being made from 'plastic'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.Wood Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 What would you spec your bike with Ad? If you had the choice of any of them. And no, 'disk' isn't an option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Hmm. Probably a 2014 one actually. Of the 'known' brakes I'd go with '05 with 4 finger blade though. Simply because I prefer the lever travel arc with the radial mounted cylinder design. In terms of returns and breakages we've had far far less with the 'plastic' levers, and they do feel good when set up correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxx Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 2014 hs33 are also available in 2 finger lever blade. One thing I really don't like with carbotecture body (2010 or 2014) is the lever pivot : a bolt like 05 hs33 was A LOT better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted July 22, 2013 Report Share Posted July 22, 2013 Got to admit the echo sl levers have always been my favourite paired with an 05 4 finger blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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