Herbertlemon102 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) If you've used the top cap to preload the headset bearings, then do up the stem clamp, could you then remove the top cap? As long as the bearings are under load I don't see why it would make a difference Edited November 24, 2014 by Herbertlemon102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isitafox Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yep, I think Ali ran one of the proto Arcades without a topcap for quite a while. Made running the brake hose through the steerer a hell of a lot easier! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkdougie Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 for the sake of 2 grams id rather run one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*gentlydoesit Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Tension/torsion. ultimately the more planes that are under or able to take load the stronger said structure will be. I'd assume there to be significant forces at play in that area so I'd go with using one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yep, I think Ali ran one of the proto Arcades without a topcap for quite a while. Made running the brake hose through the steerer a hell of a lot easier! I don't think that was anything to do with not having a top cap. He was just able to pre-load the bearings in a different way. (Not giving any secrets away) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I don't remember this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dann2707 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I thought this but I think with the amount of force you put on the forks (pushing, pulling) it would make the steerer slip through and the tension on the topcap massively counteracts this force applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanJohnstone Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I ran my fourplay without a top cap for months. Plenty of DH riders used to tighten their setup up with a headlock & then remove the headlock after. Thankfully I have an Arcade now so it has plenty of room for running the hose through 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I tried without one for a while and me headset kept coming loose. Mind you, it does that even WITH a top-cap. Only doesn't do it with a threaded top-cap/steerer type. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconj Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I thought this but I think with the amount of force you put on the forks (pushing, pulling) it would make the steerer slip through and the tension on the topcap massively counteracts this force applied. I tend to disagree. The force a top cap needs to get rid of the headset play is minimal. The stem is held by the stem screws. If it comes loose w/o a top cap, it comes loose with it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 After killing a top cap on my BMX I rode it for a year or two without one in there, and similarly rode without a top cap in one of my trials bikes for a bit too. If you've got skinny stem bolts and you haven't greased them then they might not hold your stem tight enough to stop it slightly allowing some looseness to creep in to your headset, but for most setups I don't think it'd be a problem. Ali - I think Ross is referring to your machined top cap, like the one you made for me that had the centre bit trimmed out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Sound then I shall start running my Shimano cranks without the tension screw also, its the same as the top cap thing. P.s try this and you will loose your left crank, much the same to your headset will come loose quick or overtime if your lucky. Just get an alloy stem top cap bolt? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbertlemon102 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I tried without one for a while and me headset kept coming loose. Mind you, it does that even WITH a top-cap. Only doesn't do it with a threaded top-cap/steerer type. your style of riding surely Is a factor there- huge bunnyhops, manuals etc. There's a lot of pushing/pulling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpanzyyyy Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I tried without one for a while and me headset kept coming loose. Mind you, it does that even WITH a top-cap. Only doesn't do it with a threaded top-cap/steerer type. you're such a basher though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 What about sloping steerer clamp stems? Has anybody experience using it without top cap? These stems tend to slip easier than non-sloping stems as I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivian-Trial Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) WTF??? Are some people for real? The amount of crashes i have seen whether it has been road, mtb, trials, vmx etc and the moment when a stem turns from the impact. Now imagine that crash scenario but they didn't have a top cap? (Possibility the stem could of slides off the steerer) The situation would be a lot worse. The top cap keeps the stem compressed on the headset and bearing so that there is no play. (Awaits for trials-forums next topic title: Do you actually need cranks bolts?) Edited November 27, 2014 by Vivian-Trial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbertlemon102 Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 WTF??? Are some people for real? The amount of crashes i have seen whether it has been road, mtb, trials, vmx etc and the moment when a stem turns from the impact. Now imagine that crash scenario but they didn't have a top cap? (Possibility the stem could of slides off the steerer) The situation would be a lot worse. The top cap keeps the stem compressed on the headset and bearing so that there is no play. (Awaits for trials-forums next topic title: Do you actually need cranks bolts?) as you may have read, people have run no top cap. The top cap only compresses the stem onto the bearings when the stem bolts aren't done up, once you tighten the stem bolts it's what's compressing the headset, you can do as you please with the top cap, and also, if the stem wants to come off the steerer, a top cap ain't gonna stop it, I know this from experience 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aener Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 WTF??? Are some people for real? The amount of internet threads I've seen (Trials Forum, YouTube, Reddit, 4chan etc.) where people don't read or seemingly even think, and rather insist on posting the unconsidered shite that dribbles out their brain. Now imagine that scenario but from the perspective of someone who has to read it, rather than write it. (Possibility they could go insane from trying to comprehend the idiocy of a remarkable percentage of humanity.) I feel that if I shout the words I think loud enough, everyone will suddenly realize I'm correct - even though I'm spouting absolute bollocks. (Awaits for trials-forums next topic title: Am I really the antagonist here?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Now imagine that crash scenario but they didn't have a top cap? (Possibility the stem could of slides off the steerer) I'm sort of assuming that you're trying to be sarcastic or ironic or something? There's no way you think that could actually happen, or could even be suggesting it was comparable to a stem rotating on a steerer tube in the event of a crash... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave33 Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Yes you can ride with no top cap. But your headset will come lose after a while. It's almost impossible for the stem to pull off the steerer tube. Even with the bolts slack it wouldn't just pull off from pulling on the bars very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivian-Trial Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Pardon? I don't see why you felt the need to edit my post. The way you word things just makes you look a dick. I'm sort of assuming that you're trying to be sarcastic or ironic or something? There's no way you think that could actually happen, or could even be suggesting it was comparable to a stem rotating on a steerer tube in the event of a crash...Read through my post again. I said "the possibility of it sliding off?" I was basically questioning it as it was the first thing that came to my head. Either way you never know this could happen to someone one day in the future. Just saying... Edited November 28, 2014 by Vivian-Trial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Starting it off with "WTF??? Are some people for real?" and being condescending for the rest of the post didn't make it look like you were "just saying" or "basically questioning" it. The fact that what you're "just saying" or "basically questioning" would be all but impossible to happen doesn't really help that situation either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivian-Trial Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 It's just how I am. Just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_Trials Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 No, no you do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezmtber Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 While were on the subject of not using less important bolts and bike parts. You can run 3 disc bolts, less pedal pins there just heavy, get a drill and drill out all useless alloy on your bike, and change all steel parts for ti or alloy. Once you have all this done you will have saved the weight that kept your bike reliable, now go fix your bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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