Mark W

2015 Inspired Console & Arcade (Updated: 24/4/15)

135 posts in this topic

Just (speed) read the last page and a half of this.

Just regarding the exclusivity factor of inspired, yes it is an expensive brand, not just the product but the 'feel' of the branding and promo etc. But it's always been that way, I never thought I'd get to own one (after I'd decided I wanted one of course) as they were/still are pricing me out of ownership. (If/when the time comes for another new one I am truly f**ked)

And to a point I didn't actually want an inspired at the time as I didn't feel I deserved one as I wasn't good enough (I'm still not 3 1/2 yrs later) and disliked the thought of being even remotely like all the all-the-gear-and-no-idea-poshboys that had gone and bought (or usually more accurately had daddy buy) a top of the line 2grand Danny Mac fanboy replica for their first bike .(All that is down to the deliberate branding by inspired no?)

The second point reading this raised in my head is why can't there be a 4-bolt frame option, even if it is just a flow?

Currently the only rim brake option is the V on the flow, correct?

As hinted above, when the time comes that my 4play needs changing, I have hard choices to make about my brand loyalty, whether even to stay 24 or not, can I afford a Element 26 setup (as It was 4bolt last time I checked), do/can I even keep a spinny bike at all due to it's premium price etc. All that is down to the fact I have all my money piled into this bike with it's racingline/mag setup, & don't want to spend £300 upwards on a shiny new frame and have shit brakes of any kind, eg. V with standard pads cos I can't pay for owt better/cheap shit discs on DD setup and can't afford hope or saints and smash rear discs enough that it's not viable/EVO2s on expensive frame etc, Any of those would be an unthinkable fail for me.

Surely there should be a 4bolt or 4bolt/disc frame as an entry level option? That way the the consumer can pick what set-up to run instead of that decision being predetermined by the manufacturer.

Isn't that part of the reason we build our bikes ourselves not buy completes?

To me It would even negate the need for the cheaper line too. The branding structure could stay the same and stubborn f**kers like me who have big brand loyalty but aren't swayed in their buying habits by the latest fads or what the top lads are doing, get the bike that they want.

Edited by CC12345678910

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Stating opinions publicly about anything didn't stop all the riders buying from my batch of Archives, so, so what?

What I was talking about there clearly had nothing to do with how many frames you can sell. Like you said, some people don't have the money to buy any frame on the market they want so they'll buy a frame that fits within their budget, whether that's a Marino (or a second hand Ozonys/Inspired/whatever). Trying to compare how good bikes are at different pricepoints just on numbers sold makes no sense either way - that's like trying to say that the Onza Zoot is better than all other 24" frames/bikes because Onza sold shitloads of them.

And to a point I didn't actually want an inspired at the time as I didn't feel I deserved one as I wasn't good enough (I'm still not 3 1/2 yrs later) and disliked the thought of being even remotely like all the all-the-gear-and-no-idea-poshboys that had gone and bought (or usually more accurately had daddy buy) a top of the line 2grand Danny Mac fanboy replica for their first bike .(All that is down to the deliberate branding by inspired no?)

Sponsoring Danny when pretty much no-one knew who he was was all so that 6-7 years down the line they could sell expensive bikes to parents with needy kids :P Seriously though, I don't think that was their intention with it. They wanted to produce the best possible bike they could for Danny, so they did. I wouldn't say it was much to do with branding/marketing in that sense either as their branding is pretty simple/straight-forward, and their marketing is relatively minimal - apart from stuff on Facebook, it's a banner on here (and some other forums I think? Running AdBlock so not sure) and then a video every now and again. The draw to buy Danny's bike is generally from Red Bull helping Danny make his 'big' videos, his appearances elsewhere, shows and so on - Inspired just happen to produce his bike in that scenario.

The second point reading this raised in my head is why can't there be a 4-bolt frame option, even if it is just a flow?

Currently the only rim brake option is the V on the flow, correct?

As hinted above, when the time comes that my 4play needs changing, I have hard choices to make about my brand loyalty, whether even to stay 24 or not, can I afford a Element 26 setup (as It was 4bolt last time I checked), do/can I even keep a spinny bike at all due to it's premium price etc. All that is down to the fact I have all my money piled into this bike with it's racingline/mag setup, & don't want to spend £300 upwards on a shiny new frame and have shit brakes of any kind, eg. V with standard pads cos I can't pay for owt better/cheap shit discs on DD setup and can't afford hope or saints and smash rear discs enough that it's not viable/EVO2s on expensive frame etc, Any of those would be an unthinkable fail for me.

The main reason they don't do them is virtually no-one wanted/wants them. When I was at TartyBikes I answered the Q&As and helped out with some e-mails, and every day you could guarantee that there'd be a question about fitting disc brakes to a 24" bike (whether it was the Zoot, Element or whatever other models we had at the time). Much like the majority of people running aftermarket/custom 24s run disc brakes these days, it's what most customers want and so that's what they aim for. The Flow was designed to be a cheaper bike, so a rear V is an easy way to save quite a bit of money compared to running cable discs on it. To have it so it had a 4-bolt option would mean you'd be spending more on the brake mounts on the frame, then spending more on a 4-bolt-to-V-brake adaptor to run the V-brakes as well as making it look a bit worse to the customer. Because of that extra cost it doesn't make much sense to do it on that level of bike, but then on the bikes above it they're all running disc as standard and most riders would generally want to fit a rear disc on it anyway. I think you're in a slightly unique position in that you've put a bunch of money into your rim brakes - not many people really have that tying down their choice of brake option (or would just choose to sell their existing brakes to buy some disc brakes), so it's not overly representative of people out there, if that makes sense?

Surely there should be a 4bolt or 4bolt/disc frame as an entry level option? That way the the consumer can pick what set-up to run instead of that decision being predetermined by the manufacturer.

Isn't that part of the reason we build our bikes ourselves not buy completes?

To me It would even negate the need for the cheaper line too. The branding structure could stay the same and stubborn f**kers like me who have big brand loyalty but aren't swayed in their buying habits by the latest fads or what the top lads are doing, get the bike that they want.

Running what you want is indeed why people custom spec their bikes, but as a manufacturer you can't try and tick all the boxes especially when you know you're largely making the frame to use in a complete bike which is going to be exclusively sold as disc-only. As I said before, at TartyBikes the questions were always about fitting discs to bikes, and every time Inspired put anything up about the Hex it's immediately followed by people asking for a disc version of it so all signs point to people wanting discs, not 4-bolt mounts. Those signs have been fairly consistent for the past 5+ years too so I'm not sure I'd really describe it as a 'fad'.

I'm not sure the change to dual mount option frames would really mean they wouldn't have to have a cheaper/entry level bike - providing a cheaper option for people to start riding trials on is always a good thing whoever the brand is because it potentially draws more people into The Sport™ which is generally going to be a good thing (in an overall sense, rather than specifically for the manufacturer). Being able to potentially add a couple of aftermarket sales wouldn't make as much of an impact overall, I wouldn't have said.

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Sponsoring Danny when pretty much no-one knew who he was was all so that 6-7 years down the line they could sell expensive bikes to parents with needy kids :P Seriously though, I don't think that was their intention with it. They wanted to produce the best possible bike they could for Danny, so they did.

I meant more in the earlier years, pre mk1 skye. where a really nice 09 fourplay that any 'real' rider would be proud as f**k to own could be built for 1000-1400 quid whereas the richkids just had to have a blue or green one with middleburns and team green everything - yet usually couldn't even do trackstand for example - and how I didn't want to be associated with that or have assumptions made because I owned an inspired.

I wouldn't say it was much to do with branding/marketing in that sense either as their branding is pretty simple/straight-forward, and their marketing is relatively minimal - apart from stuff on Facebook, it's a banner on here (and some other forums I think? Running AdBlock so not sure)

I dont do FB so I've not a clue

and then a video every now and again. The draw to buy Danny's bike is generally from Red Bull helping Danny make his 'big' videos, his appearances elsewhere, shows and so on - Inspired just happen to produce his bike in that scenario.

Yeah this is true

The main reason they don't do them is virtually no-one wanted/wants them. When I was at TartyBikes I answered the Q&As and helped out with some e-mails, and every day you could guarantee that there'd be a question about fitting disc brakes to a 24" bike (whether it was the Zoot, Element or whatever other models we had at the time).

Yeah I get this, but as anything market led there is always an undercurrent (?? is that the right word? anyway...) of leaving a few behind, I admit I do end up in this bracket alot, but I simply don't like being pushed into a corner. The few are always forgotten...

Much like the majority of people running aftermarket/custom 24s run disc brakes these days, it's what most customers want and so that's what they aim for.

I feel this is a self feeding catch 22 - If the frames aren't available then the bikes built are not going to have rim brake are they?? Then when trends are surveyed low and behold every inspired/streeter is set up DD!

The Flow was designed to be a cheaper bike, so a rear V is an easy way to save quite a bit of money compared to running cable discs on it. To have it so it had a 4-bolt option would mean you'd be spending more on the brake mounts on the frame, then spending more on a 4-bolt-to-V-brake adaptor to run the V-brakes as well as making it look a bit worse to the customer.

Yes I totally get that in a retail setting such as a bigger LBS this would be unattractive to a more casual punter. I meant the frame only.where the thought of Vbrakes puts existing riders off totally ("Urgh! Rear V?? f**k no!! is a typical reaction). I myself don't mind running V, but I've gone down this path of hydro and relistically I'm now trapped.

The incurred cost to inspired of the 4bolt mounts instead of V? How much longer can it take (as time is cost) to lay the extra beads 4bolt mounts require over the quick flash round a V mount? Not long enough to alienate an entire section of a market surely? What about those who are curious enough about an inspired to want a flow to test the water but are put off by V's and thus don't get on inspired ladder at all?

Because of that extra cost it doesn't make much sense to do it on that level of bike, but then on the bikes above it they're all running disc as standard and most riders would generally want to fit a rear disc on it anyway. I think you're in a slightly unique position in that you've put a bunch of money into your rim brakes - not many people really have that tying down their choice of brake option (or would just choose to sell their existing brakes to buy some disc brakes), so it's not overly representative of people out there, if that makes sense?

Oh yeah I know It makes sense to others, and good luck to em if they can take the hit and go buy saints, but I just simply couldn't/can't due to my life situation and the sensibilities that have arose from it . I'm not most people and never representative of anything - I did say I'm a stubborn old f**ker (even at 22!)

Running what you want is indeed why people custom spec their bikes, but as a manufacturer you can't try and tick all the boxes especially when you know you're largely making the frame to use in a complete bike which is going to be exclusively sold as disc-only. As I said before, at TartyBikes the questions were always about fitting discs to bikes, and every time Inspired put anything up about the Hex it's immediately followed by people asking for a disc version of it so all signs point to people wanting discs, not 4-bolt mounts. Those signs have been fairly consistent for the past 5+ years too so I'm not sure I'd really describe it as a 'fad'.

Probably a wrong or bad choice of word calling saying 'fad', I'll rethink what I mean....

I've just hit on it as I was typing out stuff above; I think the word I meant was trend not fad.

Edit: I've just worked out the 'fad' thing, I meant just how fickle and ultimately cyclical trials is - My mate says to me the other day "Have you noticed recently the number of people building really lightweight (normal no seat) bikes but going back to double wall rims? Cos all these fancy modern rims give shit brakes and bend like hot butter?" The he turns to me and says "come to think of it you never went away from them (DW rims) did you?" Nope.. "Huh, then it looks like your fashionable again!!" he says. That kinda deal is what I meant by that 'fad' comment.

I'm not sure the change to dual mount option frames would really mean they wouldn't have to have a cheaper/entry level bike - providing a cheaper option for people to start riding trials on is always a good thing whoever the brand is because it potentially draws more people into The Sport™ which is generally going to be a good thing (in an overall sense, rather than specifically for the manufacturer). Being able to potentially add a couple of aftermarket sales wouldn't make as much of an impact overall, I wouldn't have said.

Here I meant on the frame only side of things, like when the hex was a DD complete and a 4 bolt frame only.

What about a dual mount frame that is sold as a frame only but also as a complete with a brake spec that will yield the biggest sales? Admittedly this is rear disc but this option would keep feed what you call the aftermarket - people like me who build up frames because that way not only do you get the bike you wanted, or get satisfaction of doing it yourself but more often than not it is simply the spec that is the best of what can be afforded.

I'm so handy with the tools because it's only way I can afford these f**king money pits we call a hobby. I know business is not a charity but I just wish manufacturers could occasionally remember those at the bottom of the food chain who are diehard fans of a sport they by rights should not be able to do.

Not having to piss away good money on changing out a now incompatible setup, incurring a loss on good parts and then paying impossible sums for the parts you now need, is one way of doing that. Situations like that is what makes the upkeep of a seatless bike so expensive/never ending, and I got sick of it and went 24. Thus far It's been good to me is this respect

Edited by CC12345678910

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Sounds to me like you need to spend more time earning more money, or working out ways to get your costs down, rather than bitching about something you can't afford.

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From what I understand you run a successful self made business so thats a fair enough comment I suppose.

But I have read stuff on here about your more-right-leaning-than-mine politics and the subject of the lower classes that frankly was rather grating (It should be noted I'm not a "lazy dole dosser" like you (might not have been) rightly berated the other week - Never been a GIRO on my bank statement, EVER).

From my end it just all sounds like a lack of 'having been there' or understanding on your part. Come back to me when you have had to go out, aimlessly walk about, find a lampost or telegraph pole with leftover cable ties from adverts/planning notices that have long gone and snip them off because buying the £2.50 bag of tie-raps you need would put your bank into negative for two weeks. I have.

Walk a mile in my shoes fella, given that I gather from here you have your own business, a car, a house/place of some sort of your own, and a whole bunch of stuff I don't possess. My '11 inspired is one of my proudest possessions for a reason.

I really try not to 'bitch', moaning don't solve owt, but when you aint got coin but you and your friends get my/their buzz from ultimately expensive activities, "orrrh I've no money 'til ..." or the simple classic "skint as f**k mate" tends to come up rather alot! I work the absolute f**king sh*t out of every angle I've got to earn money, and my bike is run on a shoestring and they always have been.

Edited by CC12345678910

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I've never snipped zip-ties off of lampposts, but that's mainly because the time spent doing so could be better spent earning £2.50 – the excuses that come out of people is amazing. You just wrote out that entire speech thinking only of where you perceive me to be (running a business does not imply success, and I don't own a home for instance) rather than where I actually am, or where I've come from.

You are, just by owning the bike you own and accessing the internet as you are, in the top 5% of richest people in the world – probably. Anyway, won't rant on, got some zip-ties to go buy out of my roll of fifties.

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What about a dual mount frame that is sold as a frame only but also as a complete with a brake spec that will yield the biggest sales? Admittedly this is rear disc but this option would keep feed what you call the aftermarket - people like me who build up frames because that way not only do you get the bike you wanted, or get satisfaction of doing it yourself but more often than not it is simply the spec that is the best of what can be afforded.

I'm so handy with the tools because it's only way I can afford these f**king money pits we call a hobby. I know business is not a charity but I just wish manufacturers could occasionally remember those at the bottom of the food chain who are diehard fans of a sport they by rights should not be able to do.

Not having to piss away good money on changing out a now incompatible setup, incurring a loss on good parts and then paying impossible sums for the parts you now need, is one way of doing that. Situations like that is what makes the upkeep of a seatless bike so expensive/never ending, and I got sick of it and went 24. Thus far It's been good to me is this respect

That's kind of what I was getting at before though - the aftermarket demands are very much the same as the complete bike demands. Everyone I know who rides a 24 (assuming they're not brakeless) tends to run a rear disc, and virtually all the custom builds we did at TartyBikes were fitted with a rear disc too. That wasn't specific to Inspireds either, as that was including people building up custom Zoot Pro framekits, the Ozonys King of Dunce frames, and the Deng/Neon/whatever frames that were all 4-bolt/disc too. It seems your main sticking point is that you've got this expensive rim brake setup you don't want to get rid of, but that isn't really a common issue. It also doesn't seem to be a particularly insurmountable issue as, for example, Ben Travis has been selling some Shimano brakes relatively cheaply in the FS section for a bit - if you sold your existing brakes I'd have thought that, depending on their condition, you could get those Shimanos without making a loss.

I wouldn't say the single wall/double wall thing was particularly analogous to running discs on a 24 either - running a single wall rear rim is always a compromise that you make to save weight, and so the inevitable trade-off for that is a potentially weaker rim and maybe some effects on braking performance. Some people won't want to take those performance drops simply to use the inherent advantage of having a lighter rim. With dual disc though you're gaining a reasonable chunk of weight (and 'bad' weight in the sense of the rotational weight of your rotors) so there's no simple inherent advantage of switching to them apart from performance in use. Way better modulation than a rim brake, most consistency than a rim brake, no brake noise, etc. - there are a lot of advantages to them that are particularly useful for streety sort of riding which is why so many people have made the switch and then stuck with them. There are obviously some disadvantages too such as some models having a lot of pad knock and some rotors being more bendable/flexible than others (although the 'carrier' style rotors tend to be fairly resistant to knocks like that), but those disadvantages don't seem to put too many people off to the point that they'd go back to a rim brake.

Regarding the V-brake stuff, it's more that the actual mounts are going to be a lot cheaper (as I'd imagine the V-brake mounts on the Flow are going to be pretty catalogue, whereas the mounts used on the Fourplay were custom as far as I know), as well as fitting. Then you've got the other associated costs that I mentioned before in terms of brakes, adaptors and so on.

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I've never snipped zip-ties off of lampposts, but that's mainly because the time spent doing so could be better spent earning £2.50 – the excuses that come out of people is amazing.

Excuses?? I'm gonna have to go re read my bit to see which bit could be seen as an excuse. I thought I was displaying context; of just how piss poor and desperate I have been in the past. AND at that time there was no way of gleaning that £2:.50 or anything for that matter, short of stealing it or scratching on, and neithers a train I've ever got on to... I live in a deprived town/greater area where there are few to no opportunities, and once those are exhausted you're f**ked - google the book crap towns 2 - Barrow is (slightly undeservingly) in it.

You just wrote out that entire speech thinking only of where you perceive me to be (running a business does not imply success, and I don't own a home for instance) rather than where I actually am, or where I've come from.

My perception is only my interpretation of what is put out here in front of me, and you the same about me.

You are, just by owning the bike you own and accessing the internet as you are, in the top 5% of richest people in the world – probably.

And believe me I don't forget this; I could be worse off, but I make lifestyle choices to fund my habits - Do I eat a £6 subway for lunch? Like hell I do. But I know that eating a 27p swiss roll cake from tesco for lunch is the cheapest possible way of not needing dinner whilst not feeling hungry till about 5am the next morning, then I can go hungry for about an hour til me bowl of cereal.

No one would believe the lengths I have gone/go to so I can do this sport and the better things in my life.

That's kind of what I was getting at before though - the aftermarket demands are very much the same as the complete bike demands. Everyone I know who rides a 24 (assuming they're not brakeless) tends to run a rear disc, and virtually all the custom builds we did at TartyBikes were fitted with a rear disc too. That wasn't specific to Inspireds either, as that was including people building up custom Zoot Pro framekits, the Ozonys King of Dunce frames, and the Deng/Neon/whatever frames that were all 4-bolt/disc too. It seems your main sticking point is that you've got this expensive rim brake setup you don't want to get rid of, but that isn't really a common issue. It also doesn't seem to be a particularly insurmountable issue as, for example, Ben Travis has been selling some Shimano brakes relatively cheaply in the FS section for a bit - if you sold your existing brakes I'd have thought that, depending on their condition, you could get those Shimanos without making a loss.

Look I get I'm just being a stuck in the mud, OK?? When I had DD I found it limiting because I was always sh!tting it about catching the disc, and only did easy stuff cos of that but again, that'll just be me or a minority. But the advice was from the right place.

I wouldn't say the single wall/double wall thing was particularly analogous to running discs on a 24 either - running a single wall rear rim is always a compromise that you make to save weight, and so the inevitable trade-off for that is a potentially weaker rim and maybe some effects on braking performance. Some people won't want to take those performance drops simply to use the inherent advantage of having a lighter rim. With dual disc though you're gaining a reasonable chunk of weight (and 'bad' weight in the sense of the rotational weight of your rotors) so there's no simple inherent advantage of switching to them apart from performance in use. Way better modulation than a rim brake, most consistency than a rim brake, no brake noise, etc. - there are a lot of advantages to them that are particularly useful for streety sort of riding which is why so many people have made the switch and then stuck with them. There are obviously some disadvantages too such as some models having a lot of pad knock and some rotors being more bendable/flexible than others (although the 'carrier' style rotors tend to be fairly resistant to knocks like that), but those disadvantages don't seem to put too many people off to the point that they'd go back to a rim brake.

Noooo no no. I'm sorry you typed all that out but you've misinterpreted me totally and gone off on a sideways rant. Disregard what I said.

Regarding the V-brake stuff, it's more that the actual mounts are going to be a lot cheaper (as I'd imagine the V-brake mounts on the Flow are going to be pretty catalogue, whereas the mounts used on the Fourplay were custom as far as I know), as well as fitting. Then you've got the other associated costs that I mentioned before in terms of brakes, adaptors and so on.

This was the information I was more after. (Y) Just curious now. Is there not a catalogue 4bolt mount then? a lot I've of stuff I've owned or seen looks remarkably similar, specially of cheaper end forks like MAD phase, the two ive had and moved on looked made up of weld up from a catalogue parts.

Edited by CC12345678910

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I'm done clogging up this thread, but your bullshit needs addressing. Quit making excuses (yes, you're making them, no I'm not going to spoon feed them to you). Next time you need £2.50 for some zip ties, go wash a car or mow a lawn.

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That's the reaction I expected.

oh and I'll stop clogging too.

Edited by CC12345678910
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Sounds to me like you need to spend more time earning more money, or working out ways to get your costs down, rather than bitching about something you can't afford.

In no direct relation to the discussion between you guys, but i was making a point earlier about lower cost frames, and this guy fits in. The "can't afford", "don't want to afford" and "simply it ain't worth that" (for whatever reason), are all different groups of people a cheaper frame would appeal to. You have a second hand Inspired JD? And you're no douche with money so it's clear you are in either the "don't want to afford" or "simply ain't worth that", a possible cheaper line may of enticed you. But it's hard to say if that would devalue the company or not, but i mentioned that before i suspect.

Still, i don't feel Inspired are directly responding to customers wants. Forgive me if wrong, but where on earth are the steel bars at still? I make the presumption that everyone would prefer steel over ali bars ofc. I'm also baffled with the lack of 36h love too, but that may just be me again :P

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I got a Marino, because I didn't want to wait for the Arcade. Chances are I wouldn't have bought one anyway, because I don't put enough into my riding. Any cash I earn goes on general lifestyle stuff and investments rather than bikes these days :(

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Still, i don't feel Inspired are directly responding to customers wants. Forgive me if wrong, but where on earth are the steel bars at still? I make the presumption that everyone would prefer steel over ali bars ofc. I'm also baffled with the lack of 36h love too, but that may just be me again :P

I don't really know of many people who'd run steel over alloy bars, The Arcade bars fill me with more than enough confidence to run worry free plus the weight saving is nice. Same with 36h wheels, it's just not really needed, to use myself as an example again.....I've not broken a set of wheels or even a significant buckle in the last 4 years, I personally don't see the need for the extra spokes. I think the vast majority of 24" riders feel the same about the bars, there'll be people after 36 hole stuff but it's not enough to warrant changing products.

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What Ali said, basically. Even when speccing custom wheels for bikes no-one really wanted 36h, and pretty much no-one has asked for steel bars or seems to really want them. If people were snapping TT High Rise/Inspired Arcade bars regularly then I guess they might, but they seem to hold out for most people really well.

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Yet people buy the steel frames for how they feel, or at least some do. Seems like a no brainer to me. But whatever, not like i have a 24" to be moaning on about :P

My front bmx wheel actually just gave up. Think it's getting on for 5 years now, so pretty good. But i still opt for 48h over 36h despite that wheel holding up. First Sapims i broke too, so quite good!

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Frame feel has a much bigger bearing on how your bike rides than bar feel does though?

Inspired still get told their bikes are too heavy too so there's yet another reason that steel bars/36h rims would solve a problem that hasn't really been shown to exist to the detriment of possible sales/interest.

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Think that's a given a frame being the centre of the bike and all :P

Problem with the weight is they all be used to trials. I don't think i'd like to see Inspired push some lighter stuff, but as long as it holds up then no problems with that. Brakeless is certainly a good fix though. I think the shortness adds weight when the bike is ridden as a pure trials bike which is where a lot of trials riders find difficult to break out of that habit. Only so much you could do there tbf

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Yeah, I was more referring to your bit about people buying steel frames because of how they ride. I just didn't think there was the same thing with bars because typically you buy steel bars for strength rather than the 'feel', if you see what I mean?

Agree with the last bit too - I guess if you compare the Inspired bikes using Truvativ cranks and 32h Hope hubs with the Ozonys bikes using front freewheel cranks and running a 28h front wheel and stuff like that it becomes pretty clear that on the continent there's a different idea as to what makes a bike 'good' (i.e. it being light). I'm much more a fan of building up a slightly heavier but really solid bike, although I'm preaching to the converted on that front I suppose ;)

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but i was making a point earlier about lower cost frames, and this guy fits in. The "can't afford", "don't want to afford" and "simply it ain't worth that" (for whatever reason), are all different groups of people a cheaper frame would appeal to.

It was your posts I was tagging onto the back of.

An inspired (like a) flow but with a simple 4-bolt mount alteration sold at around £280 - 300 frame only would meet my wants perfectly, and mabye still build into an £800 complete. As for the hydro to V brake adapters that would be needed on the complete, IDK. maybe spin it as user upgradeability?

I feel like this happens in sub £1000 mtb line ups all the time (yes, yes, I take into account the differences in the 2 markets and the connotations etc when I say that).

It used to be that you'd have the nice build at the top the full page MBUK ad, then the one that is/was usually the spec/money value ratio that could have a potential configuration change with a few bolt-ons invested in and then be nice, then the sh!t one at the bottom of the page that no one wanted...

Since IMO inspired don't have and should never do a crappy range filler, the flow fits into the second one at the mo, but i feel it just lacks the freedom to change stuff around as you wish, being constrained by the rear V.

I know that I am in a minority, but I'm damn sure that others feel the same, as when I mentioned I was getting a yellow element and not a 4play on a small group ride, I got a universal reaction of "eww, rear V, are you sure mate?", and since I've had all three types of rear brake (V, disc, hydro rim) on in the time I've owned my frame, it was one of the best bike decisions/bit of minor peer pressure I've ever made.

Anyway, as you were...

EDIT: Definitely on the the 'heavy' bike train here. Reliable and solid over pishe thin, bendy, snappy and too much time spent in the tool bag any day for me.

Edited by CC12345678910

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This topic is a f**king mess.

I like the new arcade, I like the old arcade. I like the archives, I like the consoles. What I don't like is my bike. Someone give me a better frame :((Y)

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I can understand both points of view, I guess inspired need to do small batches as its a limited demand for the frames and bikes which would drive the cost up but that being said ashton et frames sold for £290 and they say it was a simple frame but doesn't look to much different to a fourplay in my opinion.

the bike's i have bought complete do feel well made and expensive enough to justify the price tag I've never ridden a marino so can't compare but a friend of mine has an arcade and he's had a go on a marino and said it felt off to him and he's ridden a lot of different trials bikes and knows what's what on geo.

the only issue i have had with the Arcade is the bar's they are horrible i hate the way there is a massive gap between where the bars bend for the rise and the stem and they feel horrible though the Inspired high rise bars i have on my fourplay feel mint.

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Jesus christ this is a clusterf**k.

Let's go back to basics:

- Inspired are a business.

- They have a limited budget to spread around R&D, production, marketing, staffing, shipping, sponsorships and so on.

- They have to make product decisions based around what will sell, at what margin, to enough people, to make enough money to keep the business alive/growing/worth bothering with at all.

- This will mean not pursuing certain product lines, price points etc as they're simply not viable or worth chasing in a business sense.

THAT. IS. ALL.

They're not some big nasty company that are looking to screw over anyone who has to steal zip ties from lamp posts (f**king LOL), they're simply trying to make a bit of money whilst offering another option to riders of a sport they love. If this doesn't sit right with you and you're so keen to change it then find a way to do that - you have two realistic options:

- Write to Inspired/<insert other brand> and ask them if they'd consider producing <your idea>. If they will, great; if they won't then it's probably not worth doing (to them, at least)

- Get involved and do it yourself.

If neither of those are something you want to do, then you're just going to have to accept the fact that a business has made a call as to which direction they want to go in and you can either chose to buy their shit or not buy their shit. Whinging and dripping about it here is very unlikely to change anything other than your mood.

Seriously:

Supply.

Demand.

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The Fourplay is absolutely nothing like an ET frame in terms of construction. Yes, in essence it's a few tubes holding together a head tube, dropouts and a bb shell but if you can't see / appreciate the differences then stick with the cheaper frames (Y)

The Arcade bars might feel weird to you, that's fine (I agree!), don't buy them, but loads of others do love them :)

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So how are they different then, they are both still being made in small batches by people in Taiwan and the cost difference in tubing is probably in pence rather than £100's.

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f**king RESEARCH and f**king DEVELOPMENT. It's been said many times, and it hasn't got any less true.

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