ooo Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 38 minutes ago, jeff costello said: uh, now it's a race thing too? It is a DNA thing everyone is different, you can have your dna tested for a few hundred quid and you'll know what lifestyle is best for you. It's all thanks to the human genome projects. There is no diet that is right or wrong, you just have to find what works for you, there is huge variation because we are so different. I was pre diabetic so I would probably be blind now if I hadn't eaten low carb diets. Keto cures diabetes and reverses heart disease, it has saved many lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) i call bogus BIG time one dna nutrition. probably the same as blood group diets. also post a reputable link to a study about keto curing heart disease and diabetes. Edited February 5, 2016 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I dunno there is medications specifically designed to work better on black people than white. Wouldn't surprise me if different races handled foot differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 33 minutes ago, jeff costello said: i call bogus BIG time one dna nutrition. probably the same as blood group diets. also post a reputable link to a study about keto curing heart disease and diabetes. A lot of it is just A level biology but the general public is misinformed the WHO is struggling right now to change public opinion. Glycated and oxidated lipoproteins from the liver (not dietary chylomicrons) are known to cause heart disease and strokes via the atherosclerosis mechanism. sdLdL is the most susceptible to glycation, which occurs in high blood sugar. In simple terms having high levels of liver fat (not dietary, so from eating a high carb diet via the insulin mechanism) and high blood sugar causes it. So, if you eat a carb diet you must stay low calorie. Obviously on keto you don't have high blood sugar, only on a carb diet. This has been known by the scientific community for a long time, but normal people don't have any understanding or care about biology so companies just push the low fat stuff because that is what sells. Think about it heart disease is increasing even though the population is eating less fat! Association of hemoglobin A1c with cardiovascular disease and mortality in adults: the European prospective investigation into cancer in Norfolk. Khaw KT1, Wareham N, Bingham S, Luben R, Welch A, Day N. Small, dense low-density lipoprotein particles as a predictor of the risk of ischemic heart disease in men. Prospective results from the Québec Cardiovascular Study. Lamarche B1, Tchernof A, Moorjani S, Cantin B, Dagenais GR, Lupien PJ, Després JP. Dietary carbohydrate restriction induces a unique metabolic state positively affecting atherogenic dyslipidemia, fatty acid partitioning, and metabolic syndrome. Volek JS1, Fernandez ML, Feinman RD, Phinney SD. Atherogenic lipoprotein phenotype and diet-gene interactions. Krauss RM1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Y'know, the way to help people make a change is not to treat them like a f**king kid who needs taking back to school. JT isn't stupid, and your approach is exactly the sort of approach that actually helps people get fat. It is not complicated. As Mike said: Eat less, move more. I prefer Eat less (shit), move more (effectively). Everything else is just pure masturbation on the part of people trying to be far more intelligent than they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, ooo said: A lot of it is just A level biology nothing about nutrition is A-level. and definitely not linking nutrition to differences in dna. nutrition is notoriously complex and hell to test scientifically. in addition differences in human dna are astoundingly small. 1. study - well, heart disease is related to cholesterine. we've know that for a long time indeed. 2. study - they fed obese people with already damaged livers with a low carb diet. and the low-carb diet was (in short term) better for their system. 3. study - not saying that there aren't any correlations between dna and nutrition. but you can't get your dna-profile checked and the analyst tells you "eat more fish". basically, i'm not buying into your premise that carb-consumption leads to (abnormally) high-glucose levels in your blood stream and/or fatty liver in healthy people. that's what your pancreas is there for. i'm also not eating hospital food, if there's no reason to. and i don't think we eat less fat than before. low fat products are only affecting very few people. calorie consumption is growing for sure. and i can find nothing about the WHO and low carb. Edited February 5, 2016 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 My other half is half way through a pretty in-depth nutrition course at the moment (Body Type Nutrition) and it's such a complex subject! From what I can gather from attempting to listen to her explanations, the simple thing is you need to exert as much or more energy as you take in if you want to lose weight...its pretty simple. It get's complex when you start going into WHAT to take in to get the most from what you eat. Dieting is often a bad idea unless you know exactly what you need to do. Cutting out foods you like can be a bad idea too, as soon as you cut something out it makes you crave it more making the whole experience unpleasant. I'm not sure where I'm quite going with this. Jane has a private FB page called Optimal Health, once she's filled it out a bit she'll make it live and it'll have a whole load of information on health and nutrition on there if anyone wanted. Also I'm sure she'd be happy to help if anyone wanted specific help, just search for Eureka Health and Wellness on FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Irony of talk of "filling it out" on a dieting thread: noted. Semi-related though, it's worth finding a diet that contains things you really enjoy eating. My sister's on a Slimming World type thing and she's lost loads of weight - she's found a load of recipes she really likes so it's been easy for her to integrate it into her everyday life. The other people on our group haven't really explored recipe ideas much, and smash it on their 'cheat days' because they basically haven't found food they like. Consequently their weight comes and goes, whereas my sister's been steadily losing it. If you can make a long term change that suits you like she did you're in a much better position. Add some exercise and you're onto a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooo Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 4 hours ago, JD™ said: Y'know, the way to help people make a change is not to treat them like a f**king kid who needs taking back to school. JT isn't stupid, and your approach is exactly the sort of approach that actually helps people get fat. It is not complicated. As Mike said: Eat less, move more. I prefer Eat less (shit), move more (effectively). Everything else is just pure masturbation on the part of people trying to be far more intelligent than they are. I didn't mean to add loads of complicated stuff and make it get stupid, sorry. And yes for a lot of people "eat less do more" works but it is also very vague to some people and if you have a specific goal like "drop 12kg" then you'll need something a bit more specific . A lot of people like to have a strategy or some kind of boundary to work on just for psychological reasons and it works. Lots of diets work, it's just about picking something you want to do and JT picked this so he must see it as suitable. If he is your mate just support him while he tries stuff ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike_dummie Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 This thread wreaks! @JT! whats your goal with this Keto Diet? Looking to loose abit of weight and then maintain or just wanna be healthier? OOO seems to be giving actual facts and as far as nutrition goes i agree with him, its all good stuff! However i would ignore the whole DNA side of things, that just not necessary unless its a real passion of yours and/or you want that edge in some form. Jeff, well ignore everything he has said so far pretty much. JD, the advice given is good but does not apply to a Keto diet imo. Take it with a pinch of salt. Ali C, Sound advice but basic Everybody else has just thrown in opinion and life stories The whole move more, eat less idea is very generic and ineffective. Weight loss, weight gain and maintenance is always 80% diet and 20% Exercise! We cracked the whole food and diet concept a LONG time ago, it is not as jeff said 'notoriously complex' it is a very simple concept. Maybe complex if you want that edge but for everyday it is easy. Its as Ali C said you must exert more energy than you intake to burn fat or carbs. How you exert this energy is not as straight cut as you may think. Its not just a run or physical movement that will burn the fat. It can be anything, you can burn huge amounts of fat without any low intensity cardio as said before its 80% diet so you will be loosing weight and the cardio is a boost on top. To prove this, i am big built naturally carry more fat than others and i consume 5000-6000 calories roughly a day for over 2 years with no cardio, however lifting heavy weights and i am only 19% body fat there are many avenues for energy to exerted. How much energy? That depends on your body, you must figure out you ideal caloric intake and then using the Keto diet plan decide you Macros (Protiens, Fats, and Carbs). Dont live in a deficit, live on a maintenance intake this will alow you to maintain the benefits and diet over a long period of time. Remember nothing happens quickly. A deficit will only be possible for around 6 months at the most depending on he deficit. Macros will need to be monitored and adjusted as your body composition will change. Also everyone saying diets are bad, you become fat after, yes that because its a bad diet. A diet is just the food you consume and a keto diet can be long term. You re-fuel on carbs to raise your metabolism up to prevent plateau and cravings. All diets like this have the same concept, just they have extras thrown in, from what i see the man one here is carb cycling, which is very effective, withing from metabolising carbs and fats! A diet like this will be best done in stages if you are looking to loose some excess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted February 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 7 hours ago, bike_dummie said: @JT! whats your goal with this Keto Diet? Looking to loose abit of weight and then maintain or just wanna be healthier? Non of those just doing it for the TF arguments.Going to bed will post a serious reply tomorrow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff costello Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) yeah, "facts". very little has been definitely proven. that's why doctor's usually don't recommend anything but a somewhat balanced diet (to healthy people). nutrition is only not complex if you read it with a goal: like furnishing a reason to keep eating steak only. also because of its complexity we have this kind of discussion about every few years: low fat 5 or 10 years ago, high fat now. and that kind of high-fat-orthorexia is a pretty new thing too (a fad), so even less is known. taking nutrition advice from studies with people who have fatty liver and broken insulin response systems is like taking yoga classes from someone who chose to live in a wheelchair. Edited February 6, 2016 by jeff costello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike_dummie Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 1 hour ago, JT! said: Going to bed will post a serious reply tomorrow. Yeah kinda realised that but I wasn't deleting the post, it uses my valuable brain powaarrr. Pretty sure it will add to the fire .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 9 hours ago, bike_dummie said: JD, the advice given is good but does not apply to a Keto diet imo. Take it with a pinch of salt. i am only 19% body fat You're 19% body fat. That's just under a fifth of your body weight. Come back and give advice when you've achieved something that resembles a human body. My advice is good because it does not apply to a keto diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike_dummie Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) 19% is high i know but my point was that cardio is not the key to loosing fat. Also for my current goals 19% is not high at all considering i have been eating like a monster for over 2 years now. I'm not a runner like yourself, i am a weightlifter where 19% is a very common number. Also adding that i never said you gave bad advice, i said it does not apply to the Keto diet. For someone with no goal or specific ambitions, a balanced diet is best, but its a keto thread Edited February 6, 2016 by bike_dummie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted February 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 11 hours ago, bike_dummie said: @JT! whats your goal with this Keto Diet? Looking to loose abit of weight and then maintain or just wanna be healthier? Mainly I wanted to try it out and see what happens. Mother in law has been on a diet since she had another issue with her heart and it worries me sometimes that a morbidly obese women is eating healthier than me. On top of that my diet mainly consisted of carbs so in my mind that must be the issue, the keto being a sustainable low carb diet it made sense. I'm expecting to loose around 5lbs according to projections on what I'm eating by the end of the month. Although I have been finding I'm stuffing my face out of worry that I'll get hungry and not having something really available to eat so once I get used to eating this way I might be consuming a little less and could end up closer to 7 or 8 lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike_dummie Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 @JT! How long are you expecting to try this out for? Im soon going to be trying this sort of diet. The last bit about stuffing your face, i think that may be something that happens when switching metabolic patterns from carbs to fat. This is when you are entering ketosis. Remember you re-feed on those carbs once or twice per week to keep yourself satisfied and a high metabolism. If i was aiming to loose a few pounds to not be 'overweight' id just hit the keto diet hard for 2 or 3 months and then just eat a balanced diet of fats, carbs and protein. On paper keto diets and others are all good but if you dont participate in any sort of activity where it gains an advantage a balanced diet is best. Diets like the keto may allow some form of 'binge' but sods law it will never fit in line with your social life. Also just for motivation dont look at the numbers too often and defiantly dont expect to see X amount of lbs drop. Use the mirror people dont see a list of figures they see a physique, as long as you look okay and feel okay thats all that matters. People get too into numbers, graphs etc as shown in this thread, they're good for tracking but they can also massively bring you down killing motivation. Dont worry about the carbs either eat within moderation they wont make you fat, sugar will make you fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted February 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Till the end of the month if I decide I want to stop then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike_dummie Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 On 06/02/2016 at 1:50 PM, JT! said: Till the end of the month if I decide I want to stop then. Not sure how much you will feel in just a month. How is it up until now though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Pretty good. No particular energy changes. Down about 5lbs in 8 days. Getting a little sick of eating the same old same old food... basically at this point it's salad + protein and all the kids of variances, need to be a little more open minded to different foods and different ways of cooking. Not really craving carbs but missing baked goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike_dummie Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Think some of that may be water weight dropping off, but sounds like it's a good diet. Start mine a week today. Yeah gotta get creative with the diet or it gets boring quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crilin202 Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm not a nutritionist or expert in any way but I been lean all my life. I think the approach "eat less and do more" even though it will make you lose some weight it will not be sustainable if you are an active person. for long term fitness and weight loos I suggest you "eat more and do more". Make sure you get enough sugar/carbs to fuel your body and get out. You really need to want it though... short-cuts dont usually work long term. If you dont like exercising or cant find the time to do it, that's a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted February 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 3 week report in. Accidentally been overdosing on magnesium and haven't had a solid poo since 6 days ago. Over and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Sounds super healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT! Posted February 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, JD™ said: Sounds super healthy. No, it did not. Sounded like 50 eggs been dropped in quick succession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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