Brakes - Which are best?

[Archie H]

Hi, so currently looking at a brake change on my trials rig. Currently running hope tech 3 trial zone with v2 200mm rotors front and rear. I've only ever used hope but I've found parts are expensive, the feel is not very consistent (despite having new fluid and fully bled) and the levers are a bit clumpy. I was wondering what brakes people think are best for street trials? I was trying to stay away from mt7 due to the price. I saw John langlois runs the mt4 and seeing what he can do I assume they are decent (and cheap)? Also is shimano Saint still a contender? And mabey another brand?! If could suggest a good replacement I would be very grateful. Thanks 

[isitafox]

I ran deore on 200mm icetech rotors on my 4play and they held really well! 

[isitafox]

Could also get away with MT2 or 4 running Jitsie pads 

[Herbertlemon102]

the new model saints are a fair chunk weaker than the old m810s, if you put them side by side the calliper mounts on the new ones are thinner and also weaker, seen a few go. if you can find a pair of m810s in good condition (which is difficult) theyre still great by todays standards. 

seen a bunch of people trying out the cheaper magura stuff, ive had a few friends break the levers in a incredibly short amount of time, which has put me off them a bit- i had the mt7 Danny macaskill special edition brakes and i was not impressed, the lever construction is poor, the seal on the calliper could be much more refined, i popped one of the lever pins out and thus lost a lever blade just by rolling around and pulling it normally. for the money you pay, the mt7s dont impress me at all.

that being said, riders such as @Ali C use some of the other magura models and seem to get on with them really well- theres a lot of factors at play, so definitely consider them for sure. the other models have a lot more pad clearance too. 

very few things can top an Avid bb7 with good pads, they may not be hydo- cool but my god do they work. everyone ive ever tried has been on par with any 4pot hydraulic brake. trialtech pads in there, instant winner.  you then obviously have to think about cable stretch and wrap etc but thats part of the parcel.

sram/avid guides- they seem to work? heard some leakage issues? unsure. 

cheaper shimanos like the deore are really quite good for the money.

my personal favourite, the japanese specials-- ShiMaguras. shimano levers on magura callipers, some of them work together, and work really, really well. my friend Yoshinori Sumi had an XTR lever on a louise calliper and it was fantastic!!

hope any of that madness helps. 

[John Shrewsbury]

Shimano 4 pot zee’s, saints or the new XT M8020 are brilliant.  Fit a pair of Red EBC pads front and rear and you won’t want to run anything else. Also with matching ICE TECH or slx/zee rotors.  Magura’s are good at first but so many people have snapped and cracked levers there not worth the cost, other people will differ as they haven’t had the problem yet. Shimano brakes are good for price, even the low spec deore’s, slx and XT 2 pots are good as long as you fit a good set of pads.  Also the only problem why people think calipers break so easy is because you need a fat brake adapter to mount it to, not a weak fin Shimano one. Try Hayes or avid if you search for one. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by John Shrewsbury

[Archie H]

thanks for the suggestions. Based on that I guess shimano is a no brainier. Thankyou!

[Archie H]

Actually, having looked around, the magura MT Trail look quite good. Cheap aswell. Anyone have them, if so, are they any good?

[trialsalot]

I've looked at the MT Trail set on Tarty but then I hear about brakes feeling a bit soft. 

With Shimano Deore/XT etc I hear about pad knock.

With Hope Trialzone (my current brake) every day is different and no how much centering pads, bleeding can change that. 

I keep dwelling on BB7 just for simplicity. 

 

Basically I didn't myself into a frustrated state and then don't buy any brakes. I'd really like to have a try of each to see but that's an impossibility until Tartydays (hopefully with the help of some volunteers).

[Archie H]

36 minutes ago, trialsalot said:

I've looked at the MT Trail set on Tarty but then I hear about brakes feeling a bit soft. 

With Shimano Deore/XT etc I hear about pad knock.

With Hope Trialzone (my current brake) every day is different and no how much centering pads, bleeding can change that. 

I keep dwelling on BB7 just for simplicity. 

 

Basically I didn't myself into a frustrated state and then don't buy any brakes. I'd really like to have a try of each to see but that's an impossibility until Tartydays (hopefully with the help of some volunteers).

I agree, would be great to have a set of each to try out. Might flip a coin and buy a brake, if it is no good, just sell it and try again.

[roozor]

I've got those new MT Trails. For the money, I don't think the braking power can be matched. I'm using 203 shimano ICE rotors front and rear and Jitse/Trial tech pads. Once they bedded in, the power and been consistent and very hard. I trust them 100%.

I had a go on some MT7 Danny macs....apart from the lever feel which was very nice with the HC3 levers, the stopping power was basically the same.

[Ali C]

I'm also using MTtrail brakes (essentially just re-stickered MT6 and MT7 models) and the power is pretty nuts! They're on the bitey side which means I struggle to modulate them (even with standard pads) but for sheer power I rate them as some of the most powerful brakes currently out. The calipers are nice and strong too, not like these new snap happy Shimano ones...shame the levers aren't quite as strong but Magura's warranty seems pretty good.

[Paperclip]

Do Shimano use a better grade material for the Saint vs the Zee? Because other than some very minimal things I think of why else the price difference is so much. 

[John Shrewsbury]

All capliers snap, only reason is because of the brake adapter being so weak. If you run a big fat one as I showed in my previous post you won’t have a problem. The fin weak ones like shimano and hope adaptors don’t take the force. A lot more people these days have transferred to disc brakes which has made the numbers of brakes breaking or snapping. Only some people are lucky to not have the problem yet but I can admit I’ve had my fair share and noticed what’s strong and what lasts. But at the end of the day it’s your choice.

[Ali C]

I agree that a strong adaptor helps but there's no doubting Shimano calipers aren't as strong as others. I've snapped some adaptors while running Magura brakes and the calipers have survived with no issues.

I'd rather be safe than sorry and for that reason I just couldn't trust (newer) Shimano calipers.

[JJ Leigh]

Make it a rule that regardless of what brake you get, get a Hope adaptor. You'll probably never snap one, thank me later  I'd personally avoid the newer style Shimano calipers like the plague. Myself and friends have snapped a few and the plastic "lighter weight" pistons are so light weight, that as you can guess, also snap/explode fairly soon. 

I've been using Magura MT7's with HC3 levers and either Trialtech or Magura Race pads for a year and a half or so and not a single issue apart from my own stupidity of not fitting a banjo correctly once on day one which was soon solved. Pad rock/clunking was fixed with some tape behind the pads (like every brake) but other than that, they are fit and forget as long as you take care of your stuff, like all things! Savage power and a very good balance between that and modulation too, plus I've had absolutely no brake fade either, even on the mountain bike  Cheap and simple to bleed, and when done once in a while keeps them feeling brilliant  

[Shub_Step]

Broke Saint m820 caliper on a fakie gap.(After 2 years bashing them).  Though I don't go BIG, so I can understand why pros would avoid them. 

Broke Magura levers aswell (few rides) learning nose stuff. Yes, good customer service. Got it replaced. But I would prefer a stronger lever. I can't trust them anymore. 

As a basher, I can tell those saint m820 levers are very strong and I still have mines since almost 4 years. (One lost spring pretty early) 

So I tried Shimagura. Saint M820 lever on mt4 caliper. It's been 7 months without any issue. It has great power and sweet modulation. No leaks. No air bubbles. Works perfect to me. 

 

 

[Archie H]

Would it be possible to put a magura calipers with the shimano lever and get the best of both worlds, or is that a bit stupid?

[Archie H]

6 hours ago, Shub_Step said:

So I tried Shimagura. Saint M820 lever on mt4 caliper. It's been 7 months without any issue. It has great power and sweet modulation. No leaks. No air bubbles. Works perfect to me. 

Oh...

[Julius Czar]

I’ve got a bb7 with a shimano 203mm rotor and trialtech pads, and it’s mad how powerful it is. I don’t believe I’ve even ridden it enough for it to be fully bedded in yet and it’s more than capable. +1 on the hope adaptor, don’t mess round with anything else! 

[Dman]

On 15/05/2018 at 9:56 PM, Paperclip said:

Do Shimano use a better grade material for the Saint vs the Zee? Because other than some very minimal things I think of why else the price difference is so much. 

I read that zee is made in a different factory so costs less to produce but is exactly the same.

[Archie H]

Hello, I bit the bullet and brought MT trails for £150 new, also got ice tech 203 rotor. Which adaptor would you recommend. The bike is 180mm IS as standard. I looked at avid adaptors but it wasn't as simple as +20mm so if someone could tell me what would work I'd be very grateful, cheers!

Edited May 18, 2018 by Archie H

[Topsy]

On 15/05/2018 at 11:43 PM, John Shrewsbury said:

 The fin weak ones like shimano and hope adaptors don’t take the force.

 

On 16/05/2018 at 3:03 AM, JJ Leigh said:

Make it a rule that regardless of what brake you get, get a Hope adaptor.

 

On 16/05/2018 at 4:32 PM, Julius Czar said:

 +1 on the hope adaptor, don’t mess round with anything else! 

 What now?

[JJ Leigh]

On 21/05/2018 at 0:59 AM, Topsy said:

 

 

 What now?

"thin ones like shimano and hope"

*thin ones like shimano - UNLESS its a 203mm. Even then make sure its not a "hollow" one. 

 

Seriously just get a Hope one.

[Archie H]

So I got the MT trails (The cheaper ones) with ice tech 203mm rotors and hope adaptors. Been running them for about a month now with the 2 pot on the front and 4 pot on the back. Overall i'm pretty impressed. They have great modulation (as do the hopes) and decent power although not as powerful as my hopes, they are much more consistent though. The feel is great, not getting any sponginess. Also much better pad clearance than the hopes which makes a huge difference when rolling about. I just wish the rear (mt5) had a little more bite so i may switch to magura race pads or some EBC's to get power levels equivalent to the hope's, and failing that, i may go to an MT7. The biggest difference i found was the levers. The feel is similar but they are so much less clumpy. The hope ones used to scratch up my bars (where the hose joined the lever) as i run them pretty steep but the maguras don't go anywhere near which makes me more comfortable ditching the bike in crashes knowing that it will just spin, although it is plastic so may be more likely to break. Also worth noting the maguras came with 4 spare olives and inserts and a decent sticker pack. The hopes may do as well but i got them from tarty as an add on not as a complete product.

Magura Pros; Easy to bleed, use mineral oil, much cheaper initial price, much cheaper spares and more compatible, less clumpy levers, consistent

Hope Pros; Incredibly bite and hold, Stronger levers (apparently), supports UK manufacturing, customer support, bite point adjustment

 

So, yeah, both are great. Conclusive, I know.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Archie H

[streetjibs]

i back up what Shrewsbury said.. I had the zees and ebc red pads, it was insane performance and very consistent, solid braking.