The hold is incredible in the dry on a smooth rim, but in the wet my brake has slipped but not often.. On a grind they're awesome in wet and dry but they'res a lack in sound, The bite feels awesome too, mainly in the dry on smooth and the sound is sweet. But the bites is also mint on a grind in wet and dry but I run my pads on smooth and I prefer them that way.. If you wanna ask anything else add moi msn lilsmithy_2008@hotmail.co.uk Oli