MonsieurMonkey

How is it overpriced? I think that's an incredibly fair price for what it is, and I'm a student. Video was great, definitely some cool angles.

Every case has to start in Magistrates court, it will be because of the severity and the fact they are involved with the rioting that most will probably move onto Crown Court though.

I agree, but we've lived completely different lives, in the same way you say that you have made different choices to those who are very rich. And again, I'm not saying that it is the direct cause, I'm saying it would have built up a level of resentment for everything around you. If you're on the bottom rung of the ladder and you see those on the top rung on a daily basis it must rub salt in the wound. Especially when, like you said, they look up to these gangsta superstars, they preach different values to the normal person who has earned. These people talk about shooting their rivals, not respecting them for achieving a similar level. They resent the rich because they have what they want, but they have values of the street as it were. They are idiots as well, completely, but they chose not to have an education, there's not a lot we can do about it. There's gonna be flash points now and then when you have any society, for different reasons, it's a shame that in our current society that our flash points are over nothing.

But a lot of these feelings are relative, I've walked through London and seen more £100k+ cars in a day than I've ever seen in my home town, probably more than I've ever seen in Liverpool since I've lived there too. Again, not an excuse, I'm just saying, if you have a car that cost £1000, and you see some smug b*****d in a car worth more than you'd earn in 10 years, you could see how you might feel pretty gutted. I know that they should be happy they have a car, but these people think they are owed something, because their entire life the government has supplied everything for them. And they don't want an education, to want an education you need to be educated in the first place. And they had this chance taken away during their period of low control when they were easily led astray into the world of criminality.

I don't know where they're coming from, but if you're saying these places are nice, then they're obviously coming from nearby that isn't quite so nice. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, I'm just giving you the theories behind why they are doing this. I'm not giving them excuses. A reason behind a certain type of behaviour isn't necessarily an excuse for it. I'm not saying they have a condition, it's more the conditions that create what they are.

But there are areas within walking distance of those that are shit holes? Poverty stricken was probably too strong of a description, more lower levels of income or benefits type folk. Like I said, if you lived in a shit hole that borders on a nicer area, you're probably gonna go cause problems in the nicer area. It was like in Liverpool, there were problems on Smithdown road, which is largely a student area, but there's still enough scum bags near by causing problems. And that theory is nearly 100 years old and has held true for that long, so it's kinda hard to argue against, it's generally seen as circles radiating from the centre of a city. So it's not necessarily the neighbourhood itself, it's more that the entire area within a certain distance from the city centre is possibly problematic. The further you get from the city centre the less problems there are, there's less of the "problematic group" which I'm sure you'd agree. Seems 3 people died in Birmingham last night.

I wasn't being a knob if it came across that way, like I said at the start of my post I didn't want to write an essay, just wanted to get the points out there.

This is where you need to read my entire first post, the zone of transition comes into play now. This is a poverty stricken area with people who have no aims in their life, they have no prospects, none of their family would have and none of their peers do. So they're not messing up their lives in their eyes because they don't have a life to mess up, they're all going to be sponging off benefits probably, so they don't care. They don't see it as something good, they see it as a way to make a bit of easy money and something to do during their boring and utterly shit lives.

I never know how to describe that kind of music, and I hate describing music as indie, bad times regardless.

What would you describe that music genre as Skoze? Apart from shit.

I'm from St Helens! Although it's still full of c**ts. Can you not see how this is something I know? It's not just their parents, you're more influenced by your peers than your parents at the ages that are involved here. We see in the media constantly what is and isn't bad, whether it's fact or fiction. I'm not gonna argue this point anymore, you either lived with your parents through ages 0-18 and didn't see anyone else, or your parents were incredibly strict if you learnt everything from them and did exactly what they told you to do constantly.

So what about their fathers? I am definitely more shit scared of my dad than my mum. Now if you say they're single parent families. Surely it's completely their fathers fault for having a kid then f**king off? Blaming their parents is pointless, and part of the problem, we need to hold people accountable for their actions, not blame others for them. Our society looks for excuses and the easy way out all the time. I'm not saying parents aren't part of the problem, but by the time I was 8 I knew that you shouldn't steal, or burn other people's property.

I wasn't going to get involved anymore with all of this stuff, but I just can't stop myself now. It's not their mothers, it's their entire lifestyle. This is going to be long, and probably choppy, so I apologise if it's a hard read but I'm not gonna edit it. There are two kinds of control, social and self. When we know people are watching us, this dictates our behaviour, this is one form social control, our own inbuilt principles of what we believe is right and wrong is self control. It's been found that low levels of self control is passed from parents to children, so this means if your parents can't control themselves you probably won't be able to either. Not only this, from research I've done there is a dip in levels of control between the ages of 14 and 18 for everyone, now obviously for those of us who have higher levels of control this hardly effects us, but for those with already low levels of control they become unbelievable. Looking at this country, and the rates of teenage pregnancy and violence and general wankerishness this explains a lot. I'm not saying it's an excuse, but these people are brought up by parents who couldn't give a f**k, and not only do they learn to not give a f**k, but they have a pre-disposition to not care. Not only this but the area that the riots started in in London are zones of transition, these areas house generally low income and immigrant populations and is found just outside your commercial and business districts, too close to the city for your more well off commuters but close enough for the economic overspill of the city to provide jobs etc. Not really relevant, but you've got a lot of people who probably feel disenfranchised because of their situation in the same area, who see a lot of people not only in the media but around them who are living comfortably, not only this they have no self control leading to no respect or care for the social controls, some of which don't exist because their entire community deem something normal like petty crimes. They're gonna act out every now and then, some of these places are like zoos of throwbacks to a more uncivilised time. Edit: Missed out a huge bit of info, the age of low control (14-18) is a time where kids are very easy influenced, so the other scum bags help sway them into their way of life. Meaning some of these people can be saved, as long as they aren't influenced during that age, this is why in more "posh" areas you don't get as many chavs, their is more "good" influence during this period of their lives so they don't become a scum bag.

My only comment would be, you grind those mounts off, you're gonna be grinding really close to that dent, could weaken an already weakened area. I don't claim to know much about structural integrity of frames though, just the reason why I wouldn't.

The thing is, the "vigilantes" aren't just protecting their properties, or stopping them vandalising or looting. They're getting their own back for years of being f**ked over by these ^%$^%$. These f**kers have robbed from our country and treated it like shit for years, as soon as some start taking their own slice of revenge, everyone else will want a piece.

What do you mean by this, just that they're inside? Or that they're on their way to making the building collapse? (This might seem stupid, but I dunno what they're capable of.)

Sorry, but long edged weapons beat hammers in this situation. Unless we include ranged weapons, then everything loses to ranged weapons.

It's just started kicking off again in Liverpool, so anywhere that's quiet now could be about to start again.

16, not 60. In London anyway.

I know throwing in something that goes against the grain in this is gonna cause a shit storm, but this is more for discussion than anything, and I'm fed up of having to put disclaimers on my posts. Think about the people that are doing this, they aren't like us, they're literally statistics, they will be right within the average of their area, low income if not unemployed, minimal education, zero prospects. Can you imagine living a life like that? The fact it's spreading shows what a problem this is in the country, more retards elsewhere who have literally nothing going on in their lives apart from pushing out some more kids and getting some more free money. I am not blaming the global economic collapse, I'm blaming the fact we give people in this country everything for nothing. There are kids who leave school, sign on, and that is their life. Can you imagine that, you don't even need to try at school because you'll get free money afterwards regardless. Don't put a penny in the pot but take as much as you like. Whatever, this was more of a rant, if anyone shows an interest in this line of discussion I'll go further. What I said before was wrong, it's not a revolution, it's just human waste making this country look worse than it already is, in a way, it's like a reflection. The current Government is about the same as these creatures on our streets. Just they wear suits and have more money.

If that was how it worked, would the scummers not just say "Yeah let's go get this place" when the Police send everyone there, they just go somewhere else and it takes the Police longer to respond.

Lol. I love that. Anyway, there's some students in Liverpool cleaning stuff up, seems like a good idea. I hate the fact that those living off nothing to make the world a more educated and better place are cleaning up the mess of those that live off taxes.

Naked with a machete. Shit ain't happening.

Supposedly this is all being done by BBM. The kind of person who would go out looting/rioting is probably so f**king thick they can't come up with the idea themselves, so they're just copying.

Liverpool just joined in.