JT!

or

He could call and ask if they'd sell him the frame only. I'm sure a call to Onza would sort him out with something.

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/177000 If you're looking for a laptop for the very basic stuff you can't really go wrong. I'd just head to ebuyer, sort by price and see which one takes your fancy.

You really can't go wrong with that.

But then it would technically be 'Rockman - rockman' wouldn't it?

Is it actually called 'rockman tractor' or was that just a joke that caught on?

Seems like we're going round in circles with the same argument here, I can either re-type everything I've said or we can just agree to disagree. I guess it doesn't really help that we haven't really defined what a 'budget' or what someone can actually 'afford'. You can't compare some guy buying a roadbike to trials, it takes months to learn he trials basics, but everyone knows how to ride a bike. I get the point you're trying to make with it though, I just disagree with it. Higher bike may hold their value a little better, but buying a more expensive bike and selling it compared to doing the same with a cheap bike, it's true that you're probably going to get a higher % back but you'll be out a lot more money. Again we haven't really discussed the word 'budget' much and what it means personally, if someone posts up saying I want to get into trials and buy a mod, I have a budget of 1300 pounds, I'd still suggest an onza for 500 pounds-ish even though he can afford a top spec bike, wasting money is still wasting money. If he turns around and says, well i just came into 100k etc etc then fair enough all the best to you. I never said the geo of a top spec bike would be 'too aggressive'. (I don't know if you're referring to me, or just stating that in general). I actually said it doesn't really matter. I agree it is cheaper to buy a top spec bike complete, but when you've just started you don't know if you want double disc or a maggie, high bb or low bb, mod or stock etc etc.

Mod = 20" wheels, stocks = 26" wheels.

I assumed that Danny didn't even own a TV.

http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=149250

Should be 8mm.

Link would help.

I really can't see how the comp and the mater especially can compete with some of the zoo / echo full builds on tartybikes. Would anyone really buy a master over the echo lite spec one or the zoo lynx spec 1 for 200 pounds cheaper? Or even the Echo lite spec two at roughly the same price? Or is this just a case of tartybikes having really good deals and those bikes would sell better in other countries?

I agree with what you're saying about wondering how better of a rider you'd be with a better bike, I'd bet there's no one on this forum that's thought that at some point, but that's just the way it is, it's no reason to justify risking money on a better bike. For someone who's been riding 2 years, yes a better bike will feel much better, but for someone who's been riding two months it really isn't going to make that much of a difference when they're learning to hop up a few stairs or over a crate. Besides the quality of beginners bikes is outstanding these days and with a quick pad change you've got a bike that should see you well over a year. I feel what you're promoting is the importance of having a top spec bike. You say it's much cheaper in the long run to buy a top spec bike, and you say it's not just a couple of hundred pounds, yet on your example that's what you demonstrate. you buy a bike for 400 pounds, then one year later you buy a bike for 1200 pounds, it is not 1600 pounds for a 1200 bike as you'll sell the old bike and make some money back. What's 200 pounds 'wasted' when you've just bought a bike for six times as much as that? It's really nothing relatively speaking. Plus, that way you have been given time to experience what bike you'd like to upgrade to. You go out and buy a rockman as a first bike then you realize after riding it for a year or so that you don't like the BB been that high, frame that long / short, or maybe you want to switch to a different wheel sise, something like that wouldn't be as much of an issue with buying a budget bike to begin with as it would more likely than not be upgraded anyway. I'll reiterate again, I agree if you have the money to waste then by all means go for a top spec bike. But I can't see why anyone would push a top spec bike on someone who's just starting.

Next week's episode looks like we might get some answers. But this one was crap.

Well at least we know he won't turn to drinking then onto drugs and end up on some shitty reality rehab tv show.

Wait till you hear the name of the new 24" rockman.

Omegle now come in video chat too.

Lets look at four examples. ($ = pound, need to sort that out) Guy buys an Onza for $400, quits after 4 months. Sells bike on here for $180. Loss of $280. Guy buys an Onza for $400, rides for 6 months and either sells it to buy a top spec bike, or upgrades and sells the old parts. Loss of $280 (compared to if he'd have bought that top spec bike to begin with) Guy buys the Rockman for $1200, quits after 4 months. Sells for $600 (if he's lucky). Loss of $600. Guy buys the Rockman for $1200, doesn't quit and doesn't need to upgrade for a long time. Saves $280. As you can see from that, buying a cheap bike first is the safer option, you can go right out and buy a top spec bike but the risk to reward ratio is terrible, plus wasting $280 isn't a big deal when you think about how much you spend upgraded or on a new bike, but $600 is a lot to waste to end up with nothing out of it. Also, to add to that, a new rider isn't really going to get anything more out of a top spec bike compared to a decent budget bike for a few months or maybe even a year depending on how they progress. I guess if you either really have a lot of money so that wasting $600 isn't a big deal, or you are 100% sure that you're going to ride trials and get pretty good at it. Then fair enough go and splash out on a 4 figure bike. But seeing either of these things in a new member is very rare hence people suggesting a beginner / budget bike. Why should we not? However, I agree with the point that (cost aside) top spec bikes are just as good to learn on, if not better. But the different really shouldn't be an issue. With regards to weight, again, new riders aren't going to be held back by the weight of their bike but their technique, a lighter bike is merely a luxury. Also I don't think anyone has ever said or assumed that top spec bikes are more likely to break, or less 'burley' as you put it. Budget bikes sacrifice lightness and strength to make beginer bikes as cheap as possible. If you're out buying a top spec you're paying for strength and low weight, fair enough they're in different ratios when looking at a top spec monty compared with a top spec zoo but even the monty will be much more durable than any budget bike.

A free Danny Mac!? Must buy to get one for parties.

The novelty wears off after about 20 mins. I have two at home.

Screen shot or it didn't happen.

That's what the religion is based on, believe what we do or f**k off.