yeah paul and f-stop junkie (lol) i do think that the teams like koxx have to rape us on the price as they are creating a living for their team riders. they must charge more money so that they can pay their riders. i also agree that the coustellier brand took a risk releasing their bike which has been mirrored sooo much. i like it how companys take an existing frame and tweak it to make it better depending on what the customers think it needs. this is how the sport progresses and bikes become easier to ride etc which is what the sport needs to bring in new riders. if the bike is cheap and really nice to ride then hopefully new riders will develop their skills more quickly and become hooked into the sport which will therefore bring more money into trials and the companies in gerneral. people will always need new levers, pedals etc which usually the copy comapanys do not offer currently, so the big companies get the business for that which again evens out the profits gained by the big and little companys. i am really starting to change my mind about the whole copys etc, as you have shown me why it is done, how it is done and generally shown me why it is really quite a good thing. as i have said earlier i do happen to have a zona in my garage so you may even call me a bit of a hypocrit. while im on though...... is anyone starting to get slightly tired of the whole pitbull frame design? im not particualarly sick of it but it is becoming dated and maybe even over-rated even though it is well proven and strong. cheers for all of your opinions which you have obviously spent a lot of your time on. thanks Dave