Benefits

[Captain Scarlet]

Well I'm sure some of the forum will have heard of the Welsh town of Merthyr Tydfil, in which one in five people are on some kind of disability benefit.

My neighbour has a mentally handicapped child, on weekdays she attends a school for her condition, and some weekends is looked after by a carer, yet her parents get benefits allowance which is spent on items which do not directly affect her.

To add to this, both of her parents do not work and are both on benefits for bad back (I would blame the mother for her own physical condition, and the father still manages to perform extensive DIY tasks). And after all this, the majority of the time their daughter is away from home.

As I said, none of the money from any of the benefits is spent on items which benefit their daughter, and is spent on items such as; multiple cars (including a brand new 4x4 which just rolled up today), caravans, new kitchen, and holidays.

I live in a courtyard of seven houses, in which all the tennants must share the car park. It is only a small car park but yet they feel they have the right to park; a people carrier, the new 4x4, a Volvo, a Ford, a caravan, and a tent trailer. Yet they had to cheek to ask my parents if they could move their car to accomodate for their new 4x4.

Only one of the tennants nextdoor drives, so why the need in all the cars?

I think that what people can do with benefits nowadays is digusting, I understand the proper uses of them but how people can get away with this and get out of work because of it is appaling.

I mean what is there that can be done to stop other cases across the country?, nothing.

And here we are in a society saying that more money needs to be put into crime and keeping ours streets safe, look where its all going.

[BenLeacock™]

Humm yer if you think about it carefully it might all be needed. The 4x4 i guess would be used to pull the caravan. If they have a child with a disability they might not be able to take them out of the country ? So i guess that would be to take them on hoilidays to give the child the maximum amount of opportunitys as possible ? They need to make sure they have all the correct facilitys for aswell, kitchen is something every house needs and if neither can work for health reasons, they will ovusaly scrape everything they can to get a kitchen. The people carrier to shift them around maybe ? But can't work out reasons for the ford and volvo ? other than they can't afford to run the people carrier and the 4x4 so they go for the cheap tax and fuel option ?

But no matter what its something that happens, its not going to change, could you imagine being stuck with a disability, not being able to do things that other kids do ? Not being able to go on nice hoilidays abroad. Its no excuse for there selfishness with the parking, but youve gota think bout it all. I dont think its anything that will change ever, and if anything the benefit rate will proberly increase Thats just my veiw

[Simpson]

My veiw is that it is a complicated issue that should be adressed by qualifyed people that have all the time and infomation needed. Its way to easy to say f**king pikeys taking all our money, etc. if you read the daily mail.

[Haz]

Benefits are fine. They jsut need to be monitored better and harsher on requirements.

[1a2bcio8]

I'm curious as to if you know the full extent of their financial situation? It may be that they have a financial source separate to normal emplyoment or their benefits? Perhaps not though.

With regards to spending the benefits on other items, I think the idea of certain benefits for parents or relatives as care givers is that it's cheaper for the state to 'pay' parents for their caregiving than to have the parents dump the handicapped child into full time care. I find it a desirable system, especially when you consider a parent would otherwise be working (and have money for personal usage), which they might actually prefer to do but which is going to benefit the child rather than having strangers look after him or her.

Edited May 22, 2008 by rowly

[Ash-Kennard]

Benefits are fine. They jsut need to be monitored better and harsher on requirements.

[Dr. Nick Riviera]

your profile says you're 16, I'll be more than willing to give a reasonable response when you come out with a valid argument.

[Mark W]

I personally feel it's always a mistake to make assumptions based on "They receive benefits, they have <Insert potentially desireable product>, this is bad". Like when Mike said that the guy who couldn't speak English when he was signing on got 'handed £100' or whatever, there's generally a reason for it, and just going from one heavily biased news article isn't a great idea. If they can twist a story, they will, so yeah, I wouldn't bother assuming anything about their financial status or any other circumstances that might mean they deserve what they get. Similarly, if it's just local rumour and gossip, the same rule applies.

Oh, and lumping together everything from money to support dyslexic people at school to money given to people on JobSeekers seems a bit of a bad idea, which it appears you're doing by talking about 'Benefits' as a whole...

EDIT: In that first post, are you saying you live in Merthyr Tydfill (If so, how come your county is 'Essex'?), or is it just a random statistic followed by a personal anecdote?

[N.Wood]

.

EDIT: In that first post, are you saying you live in Merthyr Tydfill (If so, how come your county is 'Essex'?), or is it just a random statistic followed by a personal anecdote?

That is correct I believe.

I don't have a problem really, other than my next door neighbours having no jobs at all, recieving benefits because the father of the 3 children has a bad leg (which doesn't stop him climbing a ladder apparently) and the mum not working.

The kids are 'home schooled' and rarely see them doing other than sitting in the garden.

Not that they have a partiularly extravagent lifestyle, but they have filled their back garden area with useless shit like gnomes.

Though this is generally because they're the worst humans I've ever come across for other reasons but I won't go into that.

My grandparents both recieve benefits, my grandad because he is the carer for my grandma (who has Altzheimers) and my grandma because she is the 'carer' for my grandad (who has authritus). The fact she is in a home and would be unable to do anything for my grandad has passed the government by it seems, and they have more money than they could possibly want because they had a good pension/savings plus all the benefits.

[MadManMike]

Benefits are good, in my case I HATED recieving them, but would have been screwed without it.

I think they need to toughen up on them though, two "Chavs" were at my last signing on, openly chatting about how Ireland's better because you get more money and only sign once a month.. Basically admitting they wanted minimum effort and maximum cash.

Thankfully I've got a job now and my last signing is next Wednesday

But yes, in genuine cases like mine, benefits are great. People that clearly abuse the system and live off them should just be cut off - like, "you can have a month more then we're cutting you off".

The signers were talking to one guy and it went like this:

"So, you looked on the job points when you came in"

"yeah"

"Anything?"

"Narr"

"And you've looked in the paper this week - anything there?"

"Narr"

They don't even bother and just get money. I'm not one to believe newspapers but I've seen all this first hand - people are sponging and getting away with it easily. They might think they are winning, but at the end of the day they get £46 and in July I get a new Laptop and some decent forks for my bike... They lose in the long run, worrying about every penny.

[anzo]

I'm sort of on the fence with this. I don't believe that people should life a lower standard of life because of a genuine disability; but on the other hand I don't agree that people think its their given right to recieve benefits.

Unfortunately we're slowly turning into America with the 'claims culture' and it'll only get worse. I work in the health and safety sector and hear of stories all the time; basically people looking to get one over on their employers for something they caused.

It does make me laugh on these benefit fraud adverts on TV...everytime is a guy working a day shift but recieving unemployment pay. Never have I seen one with someone pretending to be disabled - probably as to not upset the disabled folk; though its probably one of the most common forms of benefit fraud.

By the way, this isn't a dig at actual disabled people.

Although a think this from The Office is quite fitting;

Gareth: When they go down to the DSS to make a claim, then they should set off a fire alarm, a fake fire alarm - everyone legs it out the office, leaving them there. If they're fake, they'll be up running with you. If they're real, they'll be left there screaming for help....Then you just come back in and say "It's alright, don't cry. It's just a test, you've past. Here's your money."

[Captain Scarlet]

EDIT: In that first post, are you saying you live in Merthyr Tydfill (If so, how come your county is 'Essex'?), or is it just a random statistic followed by a personal anecdote?

Oops I forgot to link that.

Those who haven't seen. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1178294.ece

I just personally think its not a good model for kids to look up to, for example within my courtyard a new woman has moved in with about 3 kids and to be honest the situation she is in she probably deserves the benefits more than the "bad back" case nextdoor, but she gets along and think that if she was to get benefits it would be a bad example towards her children as they would assume they could get by in life by benefits alone.

your profile says you're 16, I'll be more than willing to give a reasonable response when you come out with a valid argument.

Argument for my age or for this topic?

[Muel]

As far as I cam concerned, the signing on process should require a letter from a doctor or someone that excuses them from work. If you can either walk or type you can get a job, whether it's in a factory packing boxes or in a supermarket.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the government wants to get 5 million people back to work in the next 8 years. (Not sure on that though), which means 5 million people are sponging now when they could be working. I know the job seekers allowance is for people seeking jobs, but it doesn't take more than a month to get one now does it? (I mean any job, not a decent job like Mike was after).

Maybe the job centres and dole offices should work hand in hand? Like they when they walk in and ask for the job seekers allowance, they also have to apply for several jobs while they are there before they get handed the money? Only if they've already had a month or so to look for jobs themselves.

[Tomm]

My thoughts on the matter - Rowly pretty much said them up there. State-sponsored care for anyone is REALLY expensive. If it's full time, it costs something like £50k/year, and if it's children with other conditions (learning difficulties, epilepsy etc) it can go up to £80k/yr. So having a parent do all of that is clearly in the interests of everyone. I obviously don't know exactly what's wrong with your neighbour, but don't underestimate how difficult it could be to care for this kid.

Considering 9/10 people on here have never paid real tax because they're in school/uni, I don't think anyone really has the right to moan too much.

I just personally think its not a good model for kids to look up to, for example within my courtyard a new woman has moved in with about 3 kids

Are you the Lord of a Medieval castle? Why do you have a courtyard?!

As far as I cam concerned, the signing on process should require a letter from a doctor or someone that excuses them from work.

For disability living allowance, or incapacity benefit - It does. Not for normal dole though, for obvious reasons. That doesn't mean you can't con the doc' though.

[GaZaa]

Its easy to jump to conlusions unless you're actually in that sort of situation. For example, my mother was diagnosed with myeloma nearly 3 years ago so couldn't work once all the treatment and everything began. Shes also had bad knees all of her life and is prone to falling. The family just thought she was a bit clumsy but it turns out she has something called hypermobility where her joints can bend in weird and wonderful ways so she has to see a physio and get all sorts of treatment for it.

Anyway after she went through all the treatment for the myeloma she went back to work thinking she was okay and over did it quite a lot, in her clumsiness fell down a flight of stairs and made a good mess of her leg and so on. When you look at her walking out of the house to go to the shops or whatever she looks like any able bodied 50 year old woman. When she gets back shes a complete wreck due to a number of health problems. In all fairness she tried to go back to work and it wasn't for her because after an hour she was just exhausted and had to spend the rest of the week in bed. Since then she is now claiming disability benefit (a doctor had to come out and assess and report whether they thought she was ill enough to receive the benefit and went through a long process to make sure she wasnt taking the piss) which is well deserved but its a struggle and I'm sure if she was able she would work. She has bother getting up and down the stairs and if she over does it is on her arse for the next week.

Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that it is so easy to take things at face value and think yea they're milking it but there could be other circumstances involved. Somebody else I know has heart problems and gets a motability car and various benefits. He looks like a fit healthy 20 year old but still has problems which can't be physically seen.

Anyway probably a load of waffle, cheers

[Muel]

For disability living allowance, or incapacity benefit - It does. Not for normal dole though, for obvious reasons. That doesn't mean you can't con the doc' though.

On hindsite I can see that that would clearly be the case. :$

As always there are ways to cheat and abuse the system, which far too many people are managing to do.

[Max Quinn]

I know the job seekers allowance is for people seeking jobs, but it doesn't take more than a month to get one now does it? (I mean any job, not a decent job like Mike was after).

But Mike was saying he'd take a shelf stacking job or whatever wasn't he? But he actually couldn't find anything cos there was barely any employment in his town. So someone in Mikes situation but perhaps with less skills and qualifications should be able to find a job in a month when he couldnt? What if said less qualified individual was also bringing up two kids?

Mike i'm sure you'll understand this isn't a dig at you at all Just using your situation to show that. It just shows that anyone is prone to taking sides with those that they know because they have actually have heard the full situation. Then they assume that others are just taking the piss when they don't know the full situation.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Max Quinn

[Tomm]

There's a lot of difference in getting Job Seekers' Allowance for a month or two while you look for a job, and being on it for 20 years, though.

[Max Quinn]

There's a lot of difference in getting Job Seekers' Allowance for a month or two while you look for a job, and being on it for 20 years, though.

Yer definately, but i was combating the whole 'they should be chucked off after a month' thing. Cos that's not a very long time at all. It must be so hard to set limits on something like that as there will always be genuine cases that go over them etc. Other than that i'm not really bothered to get involved as i'll be the first to admit i'm not qualified to debate on this matter haha.

[Muel]

I used a month as an example, I do not in any way think that they should be chucked off after a month.

What I meant was that anyone claiming job seekers allowance should be left to try and find a job on their own for a month, and then after that they should start having to apply for jobs through the dole office before they get their allowance.

[yoyoyo]

I rate the idea of benefits, imagine not having the welfare state where people are left to live in poverty, or walking into town where instead of the odd tramp you see a homeless family. However it's human nature to get as much gain for as little effort as possible and it needs to be clamped down on harder.

There's a guy on the way to my gym with a mazda rx8, with a disability card inside, now i don't know what disablility he has so i can't make a fair judgement, but i always saw the cards as a way for people who struggle to walk far being able to park closer than they normally would. But then you have to think i've you need to park closer do you really need a sports car which isn't going to be the easiest car to get in and out. Obviously he might just have a heart problem and can't walk distances and the patterns he parks at suggests he's working which means he could have bought it himself but i just don't see how you can justify needing a disability card and then having a sports car.

Can't get into words what i'm trying to say, so that will do.

[Muel]

I rate the idea of benefits, imagine not having the welfare state where people are left to live in poverty, or walking into town where instead of the odd tramp you see a homeless family. However it's human nature to get as much gain for as little effort as possible and it needs to be clamped down on harder.

There's a guy on the way to my gym with a mazda rx8, with a disability card inside, now i don't know what disablility he has so i can't make a fair judgement, but i always saw the cards as a way for people who struggle to walk far being able to park closer than they normally would. But then you have to think i've you need to park closer do you really need a sports car which isn't going to be the easiest car to get in and out. Obviously he might just have a heart problem and can't walk distances and the patterns he parks at suggests he's working which means he could have bought it himself but i just don't see how you can justify needing a disability card and then having a sports car.

Can't get into words what i'm trying to say, so that will do.

My Grandad used to have one of those cards, but it was for his Mum.

Might be for this guys parents/grandparents?

[hI-OOPS-CAPS]

i do like the german approach-

the "jobcentres" or whatever send available jobs to people on benefits. if the person doesnt take the job after a certain amount of opportunities their benefits are no longer given to them.

would it be morally right to video your neighbour doing strenuous DIY while theyre on disability benefits, and so on .. ?

[Jason Lincolnshire trials]

Some people deserve it, if they are disabled they need to live life to the full (of what they can). For the little time they have why not make there life easier?

[MadManMike]

For those that don't know the system, when you sign on initially you have to tell them what kind of work you're after. Regarding shelf stacking, they wouldn't let me go for them because they knew full well I wouldn't want to do it and would end up back there in a month or two.

I put down IT, General Office, Administration as my three choices.

If someone with no experience in those fields said the same thing - your stereotypical lazy chav for example, he's never gonna get the job so can live off benefits while it still looks like he's trying. He doesn't want that job and knows full well that he'd never get it.

I went for those because (in my opinion) I am capable of those and much better jobs.