Caelifera Takes On The World

[basher]

Well put Mr. Wood-

Oh and Mr. Basher, don't forget to sign your name to the "will not be participating" list on your way out.

If you put an idea up like this then your bound to get negative comments so saying sign your name......... is just being childish and not being able to take on board other peoples views and build from that and is a poor attitude for a business man.

Yes you could select people very carefully, but hpw many times on here have people been ripped off by sellers and then there friends comment saying this sooo isnt like ..... hes a good lad blah blah. You can create any persona you want of your self on a computer and may seem to be a nice person but in life be a twat. And people vouching for you can't be used as people being ripped off by sellers is a prime example where there friends think there top guys. Its also easy to go off the radar in a sense as when your buying something you may pm a person and not get an answer so you get a msn address and get blocked. You get a phone number and no answer, it can be extremely difficult to contact someone.

If it was my business not a chance i would do it personally. Also how many times have we heard of someone selling something and then not having the money to send it, stupid and doesn't make sense really but it happens. Same goes here what if someone can't pay to send the frame, what if they decide to hold on to the frame for abit longer. Pepole on this forum are great at saying ill do it tomorow or itll be with you next week and so on.

Edited November 25, 2008 by basher

[matt rushton]

Me and Hudson was talking about this on a Ride other day, and we were saying a couple of lads will get it then just pass it around the group they ride with. Rather than paying postage on it pass it onto a mate you go riding with that way all you need is 12 half decent riders, they all have it for a month each. The frame gets used for 12 months and gets broke.

[Dang!]

If you put an idea up like this then your bound to get negative comments so saying sign your name......... is just being childish and not being able to take on board other peoples views and build from that and is a poor attitude for a business man.

Yes you could select people very carefully, but hpw many times on here have people been ripped off by sellers and then there friends comment saying this sooo isnt like ..... hes a good lad blah blah. You can create any persona you want of your self on a computer and may seem to be a nice person but in life be a twat. And people vouching for you can't be used as people being ripped off by sellers is a prime example where there friends think there top guys. Its also easy to go off the radar in a sense as when your buying something you may pm a person and not get an answer so you get a msn address and get blocked. You get a phone number and no answer, it can be extremely difficult to contact someone.

If it was my business not a chance i would do it personally. Also how many times have we heard of someone selling something and then not having the money to send it, stupid and doesn't make sense really but it happens. Same goes here what if someone can't pay to send the frame, what if they decide to hold on to the frame for abit longer. Pepole on this forum are great at saying ill do it tomorow or itll be with you next week and so on.

Hey now-

That is a fine post. I have no qualms with constructive criticism, or a straight up bashing as long as its a substantive. As a broad generalization most people who are going to try and pull a shitty move like break something on purpose, or try and steal a public item, are the types of people who post shit, and trash on things just to do it, on the other hand the bloke that types up a well thought out paragraph about his concerns and thoughts on a subject, is more likely to be the guy that takes care of his stuff, and thinks about how his actions effects others. Now there is always an exception to any rule. As a business person and a human, I can not base my life on these few people. So I depend on people like yourself who honestly care about something to help guide this event through the chaos. We are talking about @ 12 people, let's hope we can find 12 honest and interested people out of the hundreds of millions of people to choose from.

As far as the general populous of the TF, the more time I spend on it, honestly the less comfortable I feel.

Me and Hudson was talking about this on a Ride other day, and we were saying a couple of lads will get it then just pass it around the group they ride with. Rather than paying postage on it pass it onto a mate you go riding with that way all you need is 12 half decent riders, they all have it for a month each. The frame gets used for 12 months and gets broke.

I like the thought, but then it stays in one place and those that live in other country's don't get to try it?

[Matt Burrows]

I think it sounds like a good idea. Aslong as you deal with respected and mature riders you shouldn't have any trouble, there are plenty of suitable guys out there I'm sure. The only problem could be if somebody wasn't a great mechanic and ended up damaging threads etc. I think it would be best to have somebody like Adam involved who could help decide the riders and follow the frames progress & condition.

The geo sounds pretty nice, I'd be happy to test it for a month if you're still looking for riders to send it to.

[Dang!]

I was hoping Adam would jump in, but I think I will contact him direct.

[AdamR28]

Hello!

Sorry, I have been checking every now and again, just wasn't sure when was the right moment to jump in!

Would be happy to help out as think this is a GREAT idea, as long as every rider is happy to sort out delivery costs. Also don't mind fitting BBs and headsets for people as I understand that can be a faff sometimes.

So when will this frame be here? j/k but I'm in full support of the idea

Cheers

Ads

[kyle-livesey]

I would be intrested in doing this. The only problem I see is that what would you do if say it was to go missing or get say stolen from the person who is riding it that month?

[Dang!]

My plan is to include a 128mm ISIS BB and a king or Viz headset with the frame. SO the only real issue will be fitment of the crown race.

Also, I have mentioned a number of time the disc adapter. Here is a photo of the 203mm adapter.

The bike will come with a 160 and a 180, probably not a 203... I am also looking into making a post mount adapter as well.

[AdamR28]

My plan is to include a 128mm ISIS BB and a king or Viz headset with the frame. SO the only real issue will be fitment of the crown race.

Awesome! My suggestion about the headset is to use one with a split crown race or it will get mangled after being removed/fitted a couple of times.

For the disc mount - I think on a 26" wheel you do need at least 190mm rotor, 200mm preferable. To me the pics of the adaptors above look a little... fussy. It's great to have the adaptability of bolting on a disc mount afterwards but it really doesn't lend itself to trials bikes - the caliper ends up so far away from the frame that it feels horrendously flexy.

[Muel]

I agree with Adam, every stock I can think of gives a +20 or +40 mount, so it would make sense to give a it a really sturdy +20 mount then include an adapter to take it to +40?

[Dang!]

Hmmm.. Well I can certainly weld it on there, without much ado-

I think I will test it out first anyhow- It seems that a +40 adapter on a +20 welded mount, would have the same flex as a +40 adapter. Sure the bolts are farther away, but I would think that most of the flex would come from each mechanical connection. The adapter pictured does key into the dropout creating a stronger connection. Plus the added benefit for those folks that don't want the mount. No grinder needed!

Anyway- if people want a +20 welded on- I can certainly do it.

[Fish-Finger-er]

Can i add my 2pence on the great idea, headset wise, dont pick King or Viz!, either an FSA orbit or the like (only picking that one as its the cheapest one on tartys website that fits the bill, could use others, but if Adams helping out with the project, would be nice to give him the backing of buying replacement bits of him if needed whilst the bike is in the country).

Reason being, its cheap, its cartridge bearing(no balls to lose otherwise id of suggested the pig), its split lower race, so itll come off nice and easy, and the good thing about it being cheap and extremely common, is if something goes tits up with (bearing falls out the box in the post, bit of it gets mangled) then its going to be quick, easy and cheap to get it fixed (either by getting a new headset for it,getting a second hand headset, or just getting the bits needed to fix it either new or secondhand)) Whereas with a king, imagine you opened the box, only to find a smal dent in the lower cup, thats going to mess up the timing of it(as most halfords/semi decent bike shop carry FSA orbits, kings are a bit harder to come by), as well as cost someone a fair amount to get put back to original standard.

[Dang!]

Well put and great point.

For the most part TH Industries is making all the bearing parts, so I imagine if the crown race gets ruined most anybody should be able to find a replacement.

[Dang!]

The 44trials "takes on the world" project is slated to initiate late January 09-

So far I have a pretty short list from Europe and the UK-

I need you folks to start getting your rears in gear, or this is going to pass you by-

For those that don't venture into OTN waters here is a exerpt as a result of some questions.

This list applies to all forums-

"Let's be clear:

• read the whole thread, many of your questions may be answered.
• what I am offering is not as confusing as it may seem, but unorthodox indeed.
• to date there is no formal list or order.
• this forum and others are serving to collect "riders" to create this list, create the order, and most importantly create the event.
• the time period per "rider" is to be 4 weeks.
• 12 "riders" = @ one calendar year.
• there will be one frame for the Americas, one frame for Europe, possibly a third to float to further extremities.
• 3 frames equal 36 "riders" or 12 "riders" per geographical region.
• Each rider will pay for the frame to get to them.
• Each rider is required to shoot video, photos, log in there experience, prepare the bike for shipment to the next "rider".
• The frame will come with a 128mm BB and a 1 1/8" headset with a split crown race. You will provide everything else.
• The video does not need to be edited, as it will be combined with all of the footage in a DVD set at the completion of the project.
• I do not plan to choose who the riders are, I would prefer the "riders" pick the most suitable 12 from their country/countries, but I do reserve the right to remove people from the list.
• If the folks from TF think that they can square up all 12 in the Kingdom alone... think again.
• I want to see other countries represented.
• If you think that your country or area is not being represented speak up and get involved or get your preferred forum involved.
• I only speak English, but that doesn't mean the frame can only go to English speaking countries. (find a translator).
• The frames are slated to be ready early 2009.
• The order will be determined after all 36 "riders" have been established, it will be based on ride season and proximity of next location. Keep in mind, it can and should be taken on road trips and large group rides, and exchanged with the next recipient.
• I fully expect this frame to be used in competitions, as that is what it is designed for.
• Most of all- be considerate, don't f**k it up for the next guy, and have fun."

[Alex Dark]

looks likes its going to be a pro-only thing then...i really doubt im going to get the vote as one of the twelve for the whole of europe oh well

[BenLeacock™]

looks likes its going to be a pro-only thing then...i really doubt im going to get the vote as one of the twelve for the whole of europe oh well

Spoke to Hinmaton today, and what you said is not at all true, its not a matter of the best riders ride it. Its a matter of people who can be trusted to post the frame, people who are going to ride the frame well and people that are going to write a informative review. Plus very small amount of people have actually responded to this. So i guess as long as you ride it you've got the same chances as everyone else.

[Dan6061]

This is a seriously good idea! Never seen a company letting us riders actually test the products before production!

I think a contract would be a good idea though, just to cover yourselves. Lets say that someone recieves the frame, builds it up, goes riding, and the brake mount snaps or something, injuring the rider, they could suit you... But with a signed contract saying that they're riding it at their own risk, and must take full responsibility for any damages to it, then you should be alright!

Easiest way to do that, would be just email the contract, then they print, sign, scan, and email it back. Job done.

I'd like to take part in it, but I know I'm no where near good enough to test a frame! (is it mod or stock?) I do think that letting pro riders test it is a good idea though, seeing as it will definately see some abuse!

Also, what happens if someone else has a go on it, and dents it? Does the person in charge of it take responsibility for that, and has to send it on? - It's a 'dent it, send it' rule, isn't it?

[I-LikeMatchesDerFun]

This is a seriously good idea! Never seen a company letting us riders actually test the products before production!

I think a contract would be a good idea though, just to cover yourselves. Lets say that someone recieves the frame, builds it up, goes riding, and the brake mount snaps or something, injuring the rider, they could suit you... But with a signed contract saying that they're riding it at their own risk, and must take full responsibility for any damages to it, then you should be alright!

Easiest way to do that, would be just email the contract, then they print, sign, scan, and email it back. Job done.

I'd like to take part in it, but I know I'm no where near good enough to test a frame! (is it mod or stock?) I do think that letting pro riders test it is a good idea though, seeing as it will definately see some abuse!

Also, what happens if someone else has a go on it, and dents it? Does the person in charge of it take responsibility for that, and has to send it on? - It's a 'dent it, send it' rule, isn't it?

I think It's an awesome idea. The disclaimer thing would be a great idea as well for the manufacturers point of view. It's a stock frame, says so at the beginning of the thread. Also, riders have to sign the dent and photographed and record it. If you're interested in testing it then I think reading the full thread would be a good idea Link to other thread

Steve

Edited December 21, 2008 by I-LikeMatchesDerFun

[BenLeacock™]

I mentioned this to Hinmaton before, about it being a stock. He said that he does plan to also send a mod over. But is unsure on geometry.

If you leave what you would say is the perfect geo in here, ill pass them all on.

The ''im not a pro rider so I can't ride the frame'' isn't true, if you don't ask you don't get! So might as well just post if you fancy it.

Dan ill pass your point on! The dent it thing, was originally circle the damage write initials or name etc next to it, and then write it up on the blog. The idea wasn't to keep the frame looking shinny and pretty, it was to ride it how you would ride your own personal frame. Hinmaton was very keen to see someone ride a comp with the frame, so if you plan to ride a comp, mention this when posting!

Edited December 21, 2008 by BenLeacock™

[Dan6061]

I only quickly read through it, plus I'm tired...let me off?

Ben - I know it wouldn't be worth sending the frame to me, I barely ride now, plus I ride mod, I don't have a video camera either so I wouldn't be able to make any videos! It'd get a far better test from someone else, got a few people in mind who'd be good for testing it.

[RossMcd]

I have been quibbling over actually trying this for a while now but i think i would like to try it actually

And as you can probably see by my tf feedback im reliable for sending stuff My feedback

I have tested a few stuff for 44trials like the tango pads and the backings. Very happy with the backings and i would love to test more stuff And I also put my bikes through alot of abuse too

[Dang!]

All that Ben has said is true, and he is going to act as a liaison of sorts. So: if you don't feel your question or

idea is being addressed, seek him out.

If I haven't mentioned it before, let me state it for the record. There will most likely be no Pro's who participate in

this project as Pro's are under contract to only ride for there Sponsor. This is too bad, but probably the case.

I do think that I will have a liability waiver that needs to be signed by all that participate.

As far as the dent thing goes:

Ride it like you own it, not like you stole it.

I am looking for responsible people who care about the sport.

It's an amazing frame- I really think you'll really enjoy riding it, whatever your skill level.

FYI

Ben is also right, Comp' riders have a better chance of getting on the list...

[Dan6061]

Ah yeah, I didn't think about the pro rider's contract thing...

When will these frames be in the country? if it's nearer summetime, and if there is a mod frame, I wouldn't mind testing it thinking about it... Seeing as I hibernate from riding in winter, I've gotten pretty bad! Should pick up soon when the weather's better!

[Alex Dark]

alright, seeing as everyones beaten me down on what i just said,

Anyway, id definitely still be up for riding this frame, got a camera, good feedback, and i ride at a reasonable level , both natural and street

[Dang!]

^{_{The List:}}

Australia/New Zealand

Stocktrials (Sydney)

Rush (Victoria)

Stikman (New Zealand)

Canada

Joey V (Brantford, ON)

West Coast:

TTownJon (Seattle)

Modtire (Seattle)

Lucky13 (Seattle)

Darkside (San Jose) He's getting his own soon enough-

Midwest

Mhoulmont (Petoskey/Kalamazoo, MI)

Nuckfut (Wisconsin)

Mikeyr89 (Madison, Wi)

East Coast

One Eye (Baltimore)

Bryan (Natick, MA)

Rupintart (Florida)

Ireland

The Goat

England

Adam@Tarty

BenLeacock (Cumbria) says he wants his own!

Ogre

Tall_Rob

RossMcD (Highland)

Alex Dark (Cornwall)

There are more spaces to fill and I want other countries represented.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Dang!