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Tms Evo 3 Frame On Tartys.


tmusson

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You do get quite a lot of frame for your money

No you don't. The sooner people understand that an aluminium frame costing more than 300 quid is a blatant rip off, the better. It's just a piece of aluminium which is both cheap and easy to manufacture. Same goes to Rockman, Ozonys, Atomz, Koxx or Monty. You can get a titanium frame for the price of any of those which will not only outlast it by 5 years or more, but will be much more fun to ride.

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I think this is a dead loss and not going to sell well at all. Has Tarty sold one at all, i've seen nothing of one being built up so i will say no.

The guy behind Echo and all the other copies had the right idea with the price when he droed them down.

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No you don't. The sooner people understand that an aluminium frame costing more than 300 quid is a blatant rip off, the better. It's just a piece of aluminium which is both cheap and easy to manufacture. Same goes to Rockman, Ozonys, Atomz, Koxx or Monty. You can get a titanium frame for the price of any of those which will not only outlast it by 5 years or more, but will be much more fun to ride.

That's retarded :S. Frame material accounts for only a fraction of the overall cost and performance of a frame. If all your doing is guessing at geometry, welding random tubes and then field testing with consumers then your statement may hold some truth. This is pretty much what Deng has done with his business. He started by making terrible frames but quickly adapted them to meet the needs and demands of riders. He does make original components and have his own ideas now, but these are still largely market tested. His original frames were blatent rip-offs of other manufacturers sucessfull designers.

Compare that to the latest Koxx Sky 26". We first heard of these bikes at Koxx days 2008, and saw them being ridden and tested by the worlds best riders in 2009. Only now are they available to buy. Two completely different approaches to frame design and manufacture. If you're not prepared to pay more than £300 for a frame then fair enough, but to say anything more is a rip-off is just wrong.

On the subject of this frame, I think its great. As a hard rider I'm glad to see a frame with a bit of meat and proper geometry. Choice is good, don't knock it until you've tried it people!

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That's retarded :S. Frame material accounts for only a fraction of the overall cost and performance of a frame. If all your doing is guessing at geometry, welding random tubes and then field testing with consumers then your statement may hold some truth.

Well yes, the Deng approach is much cheaper. However, prototyping and testing isn't that expensive when you look at the overall costs of ordering say 200-300 frames of one kind.

Look at other bike sports - why can you get a downhill frame which is way more complex for the same price, or an advanced suspension fork? Or even a carbon fibre XC frame?

The truth is that trials is a niche and that creates high prices - both at the manufacturers and at the retailers end. Mass produced parts like Truvativ will always be cheaper, even if they're better than trials components. In view of this, the price of premium parts will never reflect their real value. That was my initial complaint that with such frames you will never get "a lot of frame for your money". If anything, you'll get something unique and that's all.

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Well yes, the Deng approach is much cheaper. However, prototyping and testing isn't that expensive when you look at the overall costs of ordering say 200-300 frames of one kind.

Haha, what?

Look at other bike sports - why can you get a downhill frame which is way more complex for the same price, or an advanced suspension fork? Or even a carbon fibre XC frame?

OK, let's look at a modern example, the Black Sky. A shit-load of work has gone into that frame, and it's the most advanced trials frame available. Compare that to the most advanced DH frame you can get, or even the most advanced carbon fibre XC frame. Subtle price difference there, wouldn't you agree?

The truth is that trials is a niche and that creates high prices - both at the manufacturers and at the retailers end. Mass produced parts like Truvativ will always be cheaper, even if they're better than trials components. In view of this, the price of premium parts will never reflect their real value. That was my initial complaint that with such frames you will never get "a lot of frame for your money". If anything, you'll get something unique and that's all.

Truvativ would be cheaper, but nothing they really do is 'better than trials components' for use in trials. Same as most other 'big' companies, trials IS so niche that they can't compete (or won't compete 'cos there's no monetary value in it), so that's naturally going to drive prices up because prototyping, contrary to your earlier post, isn't cheap at all. Your minimum quanitities for a production frame are also a fair way off. My comment about getting a lot of shit for your money is in comparison to other trials parts, where there's more work going on on the TMS than a lot of other frames out. Yes, that'll be the 'unique' you're talking about, but it's also arguably a better frame in precisely the same way you could spend £80 and get a cheap shitter full sus bike from Asda or you could spend several thousand pounds and bite Steve Peat's setup.

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My mate is in their team. Since he got the frame his riding performance evolved a lot. I rode a bit too. It feels great even if I am not fan of high bb. The dropout system is amazing. After the thoughts of my friend the headtube angle is just perfect. He is using it with a 35 mm offset TMS fork (I guess).

If you have the money go for it.

Cheers

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