Drifting From Tgsy Adamant A1 To Streetyer Bmxness?

[eep803]

Ok, so I got into trials in the summer after watching Danny Macs vid. I love trials trials, you know, good old TGS stuff but really love more spinney moves and manuals and stuff. I recently had a mess around in my local skate park and found I rode like a fish out of water in the half pipe. I've come from a mountain bike background and ride trails n stuff and love jumps n mixing it up so trials/street riding hopefully feeds into my trail riding.

I ride an Adamant A1 long BTW.

I'd like to drift towards a more Danny Mac style of riding but definately want to keep the trials love. The obvious advice is to get an Inspired 24" and have what appears to be the best compromise of trials and flowey street.

But I'm skint and am not sure about fully selling up my A1 and chucking a few extra hundred quid or more in for buying a 2nd hand Inspired. I know the topic of short and long frame geos, gear ratios and wheel sizes has been done a fair bit but I hope it could be rendered down a bit here. I've two options, switch to a shorter, streetier 26" frame and keep all my original kit or drop down to a 24" frame and keep as much as my kit as I can, pretty much just changing my rims n spokes (there was a topic on this recently).

Sooo, given my TGSy A1 has a geo of 1095, +30, 375mm chainstay and 71 degree head, what would be a more streety geo in comparison to this? Can you give a couple of examples of suitable frames please (I'm pretty happy being seatless but do run maguras on the back).

I have an 18 tooth eno front freewheel, and run a 16 on the back (I think). If I was going for a streetier build I'd like to think about having two gear ratios, I run a crappy rear mech for my tensioner so could rig up a little two position adjuster (also discussed here before). Is it possible to put two cogs on a rear fixed hub? What would be the choice of the second cog?

Many thanks all, Skinny

[Rusevelt]

Have you thought about experiementing the idea of running a shorter stem (70-90mm), 2-3in risers, and 12-15T rear sprocket?

[Mark W]

If you want to do it cheap, then a 26" 'street' frame would probably be for the best. There's the Rockman Switch which is available now, or the Because Simple which is about £215 - a fair whack cheaper.

Seems a few other companies are planning on releasing a 26" street-with-a-seat frame, so towards spring sorta time next year you might have a few more options...

[eep803]

Hi, cheers for the replies, yes I'd thought about changing the stem/rise thing. I do struggle to hang right off the back of the bike even though I'm a long and lanky 5'10".

Can I run two rear sprockets on a fixed rear hub or is it just one screw on?

I hadn't seen the Rockman frame but the Because one looks pretty nice, and cheap too. I was thinking cheap second hand rather than new though as money is tight. Running two bikes starts getting expensive, twice as expensive, but I dont ride twice as much, bummer! Some of the older frames, woodstock, koxx levelboss seem to have shorter geo, lower bbs.

Ta, Skinny

[willdudeXD]

how a bout a bmx/jump bike/ 24" bmx for street and park, and a trials bike for trials!

thats what i do, depends who im riding with

[Simpson]

Have you thought about experiementing the idea of running a shorter stem (70-90mm), 2-3in risers, and 12-15T rear sprocket?

YOU WILL NEVER MAKE A A1 RIDE IN A PARK

Only seen Manning ride an A1 in a park well, no combo of bars and stems will help.

You have to make a choice, to go more park or stick pure trials.

[eep803]

YOU WILL NEVER MAKE A A1 RIDE IN A PARK

Man, I feel so much better about that, I couldn't work out why all those 12 year old kids were ripping it up around me on £50 halfords bmxs and I was floundering around. Now I've got a good excuse!!

[Rusevelt]

YOU WILL NEVER MAKE A A1 RIDE IN A PARK

Only seen Manning ride an A1 in a park well, no combo of bars and stems will help.

You have to make a choice, to go more park or stick pure trials.

Checkout Max Koch indoor Cologne vid (uploaded here by forum member Mister Limelight), this guy rips up the skatepark with control and fluidity, but still retains trialsy style.

[mata22]

he just rides TRIAL ina a skate park, he does not ride discipline PARK

[dandadude]

I think you basically said it yourself, either get a street 26inch frame with slacker head angle and shorter wheelbase such as an old zebdi or woodman elite or whatever and fit a shorter stem and bars..... Or go for a 24, which in your situation i would say thats definetly the best compromise. Maybe try to ride a few 24s first to see if you like them. I dont know about the 2 cogs on the freewhel as havn't had any experience with that though im sure you could run a slightly higher gearing maybe 18 - 15 or 18 -14 and still be able to ride street and trials.

You are always going to have the problem that the more you go towards park/24 street geometry with shorter wheelbase and shorter stem etc you are going to adversely affect how good the bike is for trials. Think you want to weigh that up too and decide which direction your really want to go in.

To finish off if i was you i would try and get hold of a cheap street/24 bike, im sure you could pick something up that wont brake the bank and then you can keep your trials bike for trials and your 24 rig for park etc. Good luck.

Dan

Edited December 30, 2009 by dandadude

[Luke Rainbird]

Checkout Max Koch indoor Cologne vid (uploaded here by forum member Mister Limelight), this guy rips up the skatepark with control and fluidity, but still retains trialsy style.

Are you retarded?

[craigjames]

Are you retarded?

Must....refrain....from....making...comments.....

[Ben John-Hynes]

Must....refrain....from....making...comments.....

Just say it. Please?

[Guantanamo]

I think you basically said it yourself, either get a street 26inch frame with slacker head angle and shorter wheelbase such as an old zebdi or woodman elite or whatever and fit a shorter stem and bars..... Or go for a 24, which in your situation i would say thats definetly the best compromise. Maybe try to ride a few 24s first to see if you like them. I dont know about the 2 cogs on the freewhel as havn't had any experience with that though im sure you could run a slightly higher gearing maybe 18 - 15 or 18 -14 and still be able to ride street and trials.

You are always going to have the problem that the more you go towards park/24 street geometry with shorter wheelbase and shorter stem etc you are going to adversely affect how good the bike is for trials. Think you want to weigh that up too and decide which direction your really want to go in.

To finish off if i was you i would try and get hold of a cheap street/24 bike, im sure you could pick something up that wont brake the bank and then you can keep your trials bike for trials and your 24 rig for park etc. Good luck.

Dan

someones got a planetx street/jump bike on the for sale forum for about £150 here -> http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index....howtopic=146170

[Mark W]

either get a street 26inch frame with slacker head angle

Whoa whoa whoa there - why, if you're going to be doing streetier, BMXy stuff, would you want a slacker head angle?!

[Ash-Kennard]

Whoa whoa whoa there - why, if you're going to be doing streetier, BMXy stuff, would you want a slacker head angle?!

werd

[Matt Burrows]

A1 longs are ridiculously long! I've ridden A1 shorts for 2 years now and absolutely love them, but can't stand the long version. I'd say just try a shorter 26" frame and play with the bar and stem set-up. 24" bikes aren't all they're made out to be, and for the extra cost its not worth it unless you're sure its what you want. There's plenty of short 2nd hand deng frames around 1060-1070, with a streetier bar set-up this would be a world away from your current set-ep. I've tried 24" bikes a few times but always go back to 26" for street trials

[dandadude]

Whoa whoa whoa there - why, if you're going to be doing streetier, BMXy stuff, would you want a slacker head angle?!

Because with a slacker head angle and by this i mean around 70 degrees rather than 72 your weight is then more over the centre of the bike which is better for bunnyhops, manuals and general spinning etc, no good having your nose almost touching the front tyre if you want to be doing bmx/streety moves but hey thats just my opinion.

Dan

[Matt Burrows]

Because with a slacker head angle and by this i mean around 70 degrees rather than 72 your weight is then more over the centre of the bike which is better for bunnyhops, manuals and general spinning etc, no good having your nose almost touching the front tyre if you want to be doing bmx/streety moves but hey thats just my opinion.

Dan

I think you've got a bit confused there, a slacker head angle will make your weight less central and more over the back wheel. Most BMXs have around a 74 or 75 degree head angle, and trials bikes are usually 71-72. Which is better for street?

[Jason222]

I think you've got a bit confused there, a slacker head angle will make your weight less central and more over the back wheel. Most BMXs have around a 74 or 75 degree head angle, and trials bikes are usually 71-72. Which is better for street?

Dan's right.

Slacker head angles are good for a more bunnyhop/manual and flicky riding bike, because they make the reach of the frame shorter. Sharper head angles are good for front wheel moves, but make the reach long, making the bike ride slower and more sluggish, like a long trials bike would.

[craigjames]

Slack head angle is slightly better for manuals and bunnyhops, but changing the chainstay length and the bb rise can compensate for this and allow for a steeper HA which is better suited for spins

[Matt Burrows]

Dan's right.

Slacker head angles are good for a more bunnyhop/manual and flicky riding bike, because they make the reach of the frame shorter. Sharper head angles are good for front wheel moves, but make the reach long, making the bike ride slower and more sluggish, like a long trials bike would.

No he's not. He was talking about changing the head angle not the reach. If your trying to explain the ride characteristics of different frame geometries, then you must assess each frame measurement seperately and keep others constant. If you keep the reach the same then the wheelbase will be longer with a slack headangle and hence worse for street. If you keep the wheelbase the same and change the head angle then yes you are right, but wheelbase is not a geometry of the frame, and isn't really relevant when trying to explain frame geos. In most other bike disciplines wheelbase is rarely thought about as it has nothing to do with the fit of the bike. There is no point in having a frame which handles better if it is too short to be comfortable. For some reason trials riders place more importance on wheelbase than reach, even to the point that set wheelbases define what type of riding the bike is for which is complete tosh

[dandadude]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree

I was just saying if the guy is looking for a streetier 26 bike that will bunnyhop and manual easier which to me is two things normal stock trials bikes are terrible for due to being so low and over the front then i personally would get a frame with a slacker head angle and in general a shorter wheelbase. Of course a slacker headangle increases wheel base but frames with a slacker head angle usually have a shorter wheel base then trials frames to start with. Many things could affect the wheelbase, length and offset of the forks, length of chainstays etc.

To be fair though it is not just the frame that would need to change because obviously if your are going towards street you would want a shorter, higher rise stem and more rise on the front in general but again this is all to give you a more central feel on the bike and would make the bike less trials oriented. Regardless of frame his bike will not feel nice for bmxy moves if he is still riding with a 110 x 15 stem and flat bars cus he will still be in a very over the front position which for me makes it very difficult to bunnhop and manual etc.

Also going back to your post before last, you can't really compare bmx to 26 geometry because they are completely different. How bad would a 26 ride with 74 or 75 degree head angle?

By the way im not trying to argue or anything but just thought i would try and explain myself better.

Dan

Edited December 31, 2009 by dandadude

[Ali C]

How bad would a 26 ride with 74 or 75 degree head angle?

not bad if used with a short stem, ashton justices were a 73 degree head angle and I used that with a 110mm stem. If you had a bike with a 75 degree head angle and used a bmx style stem that would be fine.

[manuel]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree

I was just saying if the guy is looking for a streetier 26 bike that will bunnyhop and manual easier which to me is two things normal stock trials bikes are terrible for due to being so low and over the front then i personally would get a frame with a slacker head angle and in general a shorter wheelbase. Of course a slacker headangle increases wheel base but frames with a slacker head angle usually have a shorter wheel base then trials frames to start with. Many things could affect the wheelbase, length and offset of the forks, length of chainstays etc.

To be fair though it is not just the frame that would need to change because obviously if your are going towards street you would want a shorter, higher rise stem and more rise on the front in general but again this is all to give you a more central feel on the bike and would make the bike less trials oriented. Regardless of frame his bike will not feel nice for bmxy moves if he is still riding with a 110 x 15 stem and flat bars cus he will still be in a very over the front position which for me makes it very difficult to bunnhop and manual etc.

Also going back to your post before last, you can't really compare bmx to 26 geometry because they are completely different. How bad would a 26 ride with 74 or 75 degree head angle?

By the way im not trying to argue or anything but just thought i would try and explain myself better.

Dan

werent the old ashtons like 73/74 degrees ? They ride very nicely indeed.

There is no way you can convince me that a slacker HA will make a better street bike. All that is going to do is put the wheel further out in front which will actually make levering the bike up on the rear wheel (and keeping it there) harder - pure science. think of trying to wheelie a chopper ...

to make pulling up the bars easier just make the reach shorter/taller (eg low bb and essentially a shorter wheelbase) and raise the front up.

Keeping a steep HA will keep the steering sharp and flicky and make spinning a load better.