Hannah Shucksmith Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) you dont vote for the leader you vote for your local MP - if you prefer david cameron but your local tory is a fanny you shouldnt really be voting conservative, as I would guess that will affect you far more.... I'm guessing that post was regarding my one up there somewhere. Firstly, I don't vote - I'm too young. Secondly, I was only airing my views relating to PeanuckleJive's previous post about Gordon Brown running the country. Edit: I didn't mean to sound that shitty either Edited March 30, 2010 by Hannah Shucksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 you dont vote for the leader you vote for your local MP - if you prefer david cameron but your local tory is a fanny you shouldnt really be voting conservative, as I would guess that will affect you far more.... I kind've feel you vote for the entire package of leader, party, policy, etc. but at the same time feel that personality is most likely irrelevant, unless it relates to something obviously bad. I guess it could be an indicator of what will follow but is essentially less important than other facts. Unfortunately I can imagine that voting often falls down to things like personality (the states is terrible for this) and a few minor but emotive or selfish policies. Alas. On that note, I remember seeing a tory poster, with a "plumber" saying how he's now voting tory because the tories will be good for the "economy". What does that even mean? It's not rational, it's just emotive. The economy is such a broad and abstract term which means so much, and different things to different people, that we really need to narrow down what the tories have to contribute to our economy to make any sense of it. Argh. I remember two previous posters as well. A Labour poster suggesting that the then tory candidate was essentially evil, using a literal image of some evil eyes. The tory poster said something like "you wouldn't trust..." something or other. Both emotive tactics using fear, absent of proper rationale which is essential to a valid democratic process. It's no wonder people become apathetic when these are the tactics they observe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted March 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) you dont vote for the leader you vote for your local MP - if you prefer david cameron but your local tory is a fanny you shouldnt really be voting conservative, as I would guess that will affect you far more.... That is one of the reasons why im kinda undecided. I like my local labour MP Nick Raynsford , but hate Gordon Brown's lack of leadership , so its a kinda catch-22 situation Chances are, the election will end in what as known as a 'hung parliament' where David Cameron will not secure enough votes for a majority win, and Gordon Brown will effectively remain as prime minister. Let the sh*t times roll again (N) Edited March 30, 2010 by Rusevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanuckleJive Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 That is one of the reasons why im kinda undecided. I like my local labour MP Nick Raynsford , but hate Gordon Brown's lack of leadership , so its a kinda catch-22 situation Chances are, the election will end in what as known as a 'hung parliament' where David Cameron will not secure enough votes for a majority win, and Gordon Brown will effectively remain as prime minister. Let the sh*t times roll again (N) Pretty much the reason Labour have been in power for so long now? Maybe it's gonna just stay a stalemate like that forever more unless one of them can pull something really awesome out of the bag (Which, I'm guessing won't happen either) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nick Riviera Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Everyone who can't be bothered to vote waives their right to complain about pretty much everything. If you don't agree with any of them, turn up and spoil, don't waste the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Everyone who can't be bothered to vote waives their right to complain about pretty much everything. Disagree. We still pay taxes, so have the right to moan when those taxes are wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Disagree. We still pay taxes, so have the right to moan when those taxes are wasted. Yet there exists the potential of influencing the way those taxes are being spent and you don't do it? I understand the complaining but then if there's a problem, why the lack of engagement to help the problem? This kind've reminds me of my ex who always wanted to complain about a problem but was never interested in taking the action to resolve it, which I never really understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Yet there exists the potential of influencing the way those taxes are being spent and you don't do it? I understand the complaining but then if there's a problem, why the lack of engagement to help the problem? This kind've reminds me of my ex who always wanted to complain about a problem but was never interested in taking the action to resolve it, which I never really understood. Because it's not as easy as that - having a mobile phone contract that is expensive is easy to fix, I cancel the contract. I don't have direct influence on how my taxes are spent. It's basically like saying don't moan about your phone contract, go for a different one - if they're all too expensive it's pointless. You could say vote for a minority party, but then that's a waste of time because they'll never win... As far as I can see there's no "action to resolve it" that one person can pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1a2bcio8 Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) Because it's not as easy as that - having a mobile phone contract that is expensive is easy to fix, I cancel the contract. I don't have direct influence on how my taxes are spent. It's basically like saying don't moan about your phone contract, go for a different one - if they're all too expensive it's pointless. You could say vote for a minority party, but then that's a waste of time because they'll never win... As far as I can see there's no "action to resolve it" that one person can pull off. No I would agree that it's not as simple and as absolute as cancelling a phone bill but that's why I said "influence". And yes I would say vote for a minority party, if you find some agreement with what they say. The argument against doing so on the basis of either, I as an individual have no influence or a smaller party will never win are, I would suggest, bad or limited forms of logic. Every party that wins, wins on the basis of a collection of individuals. Just because it is a large collection, doesn't mean there are no longer individuals forming it. Individual attitudes can potentially change. You could change your view that it's pointless trying and so can others. Trends in large groups of individuals do change over time as is easily evidenced by history. But with regards to the specific thought form, in so much as you and others say because it is this way now, it will always be this way, I won't act, then the process becomes entirely self fulfilling. Naturally if we think it won't work, don't try, then it definitely doesn't happen. This is not to say that such a process would be instantaneous and that leads me to the other statement you made. Saying that a minority party will never win, thus I will never vote for it also becomes self-fulfilling. It also relates to short sightedness. Just because your actions won't cause the result you want right now, doesn't mean they don't form some sort of investment for the future beyond any kind of immeadiacy. Regarding certain changes, sometimes we need to accept that it will take a while and that that's okay if it means we get there in the end. This seems to be a general theme in our culture of instant gratification regarding our actions and disinterest if something doesn't reward us straight away. Pretty much, people have continually across history been faced with hugh tasks relating to social and political change, ones that greatly surpassed any current process of getting a minor party into power, but who have despite this, succeeded in their attempts. That's because individuals repeatedly made efforts against something that was bigger than they were. Social and political change usually starts with an individual or individuals and it takes time, but it's all possible as is clearly evidenced by history. That is, unless we decide it's not possible and don't try. How can you not see that change is possible but that it requires you? If everyone recognised that fact, democracy would work a lot better. Edited March 30, 2010 by Ben Rowlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Which party was it that wanted to raise tax for people on more than 20k a year? Conservatives i think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Which party was it that wanted to raise tax for people on more than 20k a year? Conservatives i think? To be honest I imagine taxes will be going up regardless who gets in. Maybe the Tories were the only ones who are actually willing to admit it?... I can't stand that thing Brown does with his mouth so would never vote for him/Labour. Good reason, no? I've actually been fairly impressed with the Lib Dem dude (what little I've seen of him). I know it's almost impossible for them to get in but it would be interesting if they did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Tea Why Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Everyone who can't be bothered to vote waives their right to complain about pretty much everything. If you don't agree with any of them, turn up and spoil, don't waste the opportunity. This really annoys me. I am 17, thus I will narrowly miss out on an opportunity to vote. However, the next few years are going to be critical for me in building a foundation for my future career. The idea of having no say in the government in power at this time scares me, I do not understand why age dictates as to whether somebody is qualified to vote or not over IQ and relevance to the situation. People argue about how everything is and do not use their power to try and change things while I am sat here completley impotent in the matter. One may argue that I am not paying taxes and therefore I am not supporting the government at this time, therefore I should not be entitled to vote. However, I will be 18 shortly after the election. I feel I should also mention how little the government has supported me; because of my age and location I have struggled to find a job with a good wage. And because of my age I am only being paid slightly above the minimum wage for 16 year olds, which is not very helpful when you are in college and trying to save money to go to university. Now I am sure everybody knows about the EMA scheme to help students through college financially, however I do not meet the criteria for that as my parents earned more than the maximum limit for entitlement to the scheme. What was not taken into account was how much we would be earning in the next financial year (my dad was in fear of losing his job at one point), nor were the various debts my parents were in at the time. There was no room for negotiation or empathy for my situation, just a black and white no that has resulted in me seriously having to re plan my aspirations for the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Scarlet Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom Official Monster Raving Loony Party for me! Some proposals/policies. The idea of weight monitoring chips in wheelie bins should be scrapped, instead the wheels should be removed, this would mean that if people generated too much waste they could not put their non-wheelie bin out for collection. It would also help prevent them being chucked into canals. Drivers can go straight over a roundabout when there's no traffic coming "to make driving through Milton Keynes more fun". Edited March 31, 2010 by Captain Scarlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 18 is just when you legally become an adult, deal. "The age of majority is the threshold of adulthood as it is conceptualized (and recognized or declared) in law. It is the chronological moment when a minor ceases to legally be considered a child and assumes control over their persons, actions and decisions, thereby terminating the legal control and legal responsibilities of their parents or guardian over and for them. The word majority here refers to having greater years and being of full age; it is opposed to minority, the state of being a minor. The law in a given jurisdiction may never actually use the term "age of majority" and the term thereby refers to a collection of laws bestowing the status of adulthood. The age of majority is a legally fixed age, concept or statutory principle, which may differ depending on the jurisdiction, and may not necessarily correspond to actual mental or physical maturity of an individual." +EMA = total bull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom Official Monster Raving Loony Party for me! Unfortunately there are far too few representatives to actually vote for... It's only if you're lucky enough to havea OMRLP candidate that you can give them the chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Tea Why Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 18 is just when you legally become an adult, deal. "The age of majority is the threshold of adulthood as it is conceptualized (and recognized or declared) in law. It is the chronological moment when a minor ceases to legally be considered a child and assumes control over their persons, actions and decisions, thereby terminating the legal control and legal responsibilities of their parents or guardian over and for them. The word majority here refers to having greater years and being of full age; it is opposed to minority, the state of being a minor. The law in a given jurisdiction may never actually use the term "age of majority" and the term thereby refers to a collection of laws bestowing the status of adulthood. The age of majority is a legally fixed age, concept or statutory principle, which may differ depending on the jurisdiction, and may not necessarily correspond to actual mental or physical maturity of an individual." +EMA = total bull If this is directed at me; I posted to explain why I am annoyed at non-voters moaning about government etc and also to explain why I would want to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Big talk today on the news seems to be about National Insurance. Labour feel its necessary to increase it to help reduce the national defict (business dont like that) where as Tories intend to cut NI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 Big talk today on the news seems to be about National Insurance. Labour feel its necessary to increase it to help reduce the national defict (business dont like that) where as Tories intend to cut NI. Doesn't really matter either way I reckon, if one party decreases NI they will increase something else - and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusevelt Posted April 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 (edited) True, but then it depends on what increase and decrease affects you ie; national insurance affects everyone without choice where as fags and booze, affects those whom choose to smoke and drink. Edited April 1, 2010 by Rusevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I heard the worst possible opinion on this NI business yesterday on the way home; "Gary is 25 and is a Builder, he thinks a drop in NI would be good for him...." "Yeah, definately good! I mean, I pay NI out me wages every week...Dunno why I pay it though, hardly been to the doctors and never been to hospital in me life", said with some Cockney thick as shit accent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 True, but then it depends on what increase and decrease affects you ie; national insurance affects everyone without choice where as fags and booze, affects those whom choose to smoke and drink. Good point - still, no guarantee whichever party gets in won't do a 180 and do the opposite of what they promised during their campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duck Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 (edited) Going Edited July 14, 2020 by The Duck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD™ Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 I'd move abroad if abroad wasn't full of foreign people. <Stereotypical>So is the UK though...</stereotypical> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anzo Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 <Stereotypical>So is the UK though...</stereotypical> I pretend that I pay my f**king taxes and they think they can just come and do the work that I can't be arsed to do for less money? The lazy sponging bastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted April 1, 2010 Report Share Posted April 1, 2010 <Stereotypical>So is the UK though...</stereotypical> Good call. Regardless of who's 'in power', I really wish we'd use the French ethos when it comes to pathetic EU matters... agree in principal then just ignore it and carry on before. We seem to be really stupid at blindly following dumb legislations which do nothing but make our lives more annoying and awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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