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Rockman Kortz 2!


Bigman
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Hey Guys, I have been told that it is OK now to show people the frame i have been riding for the past 4-5 months, this is the new kortz 2 frame, the frame has been improved alot, and the geometry is very nice at 1095mm, +60, 380mm and 72deg head angle (with koxx disc forks), the frame is due for release within the next 3-4 weeks.

Pics:

rockmankortz2.jpg

rockmankortzz2front.jpg

Current Spec:

Rockman Proto Kortz 2 frame

Koxx disc fork

Front echo TR hub on custom milled DX32 (Single walled, large square holes and sidewall drilling), try-all tyre

Rear echo TR hub on try-all hOles rim, continental rain King tyre

Rockman Cranks, Echo SL free wheel and cut down atomz bash between the BB and frame

First 128 IRB BB alu bolts

Magura HS33 rear with 4 finger lever, chorillaz TPA CNC rock pads, cut down RB booster and home made splitter.

Magura Louise Carbon with 200mm aztec wavey rotor

Welgo MG1 Ti pedals

Echo SL headset

Rockman handlebars

Tartybikes 15 x 125mm stem.

Hope you guys like the frame, They are Aiming to be released within the next few weeks, I am un-aware of the final colours or graphics but the frame will look like this.

Adam

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Looks beefer than the original Kortz, so should be strong enough for street bashers yet remain light enough for comp use. Will interesting to see the final colour scheme, though this kinda bronse/orange finish look sweet enough (Y)

Edited by Rusevelt
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how has the frame changed adam to be beneficial to the rider?

is it geometry changes? structural changes? purely just aesthetics.

cant say i am a fan myself, but do weirdly like the orange. get a video out...

There are alot of Changes Ben:

Geometry is slightly different to the previous Kortz, 1095, +55, 71deg for the original and 1095, +60 and 72deg for the new one.

Structural changes: They have raised the seat tube meaning that the angle where the seat stays meet the top tube has been reduced, this is where previous kortz frames had failed, this current frame has lasted longer than both of my previous kortz frames did, There are new dropouts which still have the integrated tensioners but are much more compact, it has the 2 piece hollow yoke from the slate 2 frames, different booster setup to the previous kortz and also a pretty sweet hydroformed downtube which has a flat underside which seams pretty resistant to dents!!

I might have time to make a quick video, I am not sure, as I will be recieving another proto soon to test. I will see what I can do!

Hope that clears a few things up.

Adam

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Well you know i like it, definitely looks and feels sturdier than the original Kortz, the geo feels nice too :)

If you're about this weekend, go for another little ride mate?

I certainly Will Craig,Gimme a shout when you are down here! We shall go ride some rocks somewhere!

Adam

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What about the weight, is it slightly heavier than the original Kortz due its beefer frame construction?

I am actualy unsure on the weight of the frame, when i received it I did not have any means of weighing it ( I was working in NZ at the time) I would expect it to be a little heavier, but i am not sure.

And Laurence: To quote myself: I am unaware what the final colours and graphics will be, this is a prototype frame, and therefore at the point this one was made the final finish was not chosen.

Adam

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Oh right fair enough. You've gotta admit it does look like the tractor.

It does yes, BUT the original kortz, as below:

kortzgreenside.jpg

Was released last spring, so has been out way before the traktor frame.

Ah well, I will update all these threads with pictures of the production frame when I recieve them (Y)

Adam

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Looks to me like it will crack at the top of the seat stays just like the old one. bet it rides nice but there just not built to last B)

I have been riding this frame for 4-5 months now, the previous frames l lasted me a maximum of 2 months each, and this one is still going strong, So I am sure it will deffinatly last longer! The angle between the seat stays and top tube has been reduced too, which has made a massive difference to this.

Adam

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Bigman, in one of my topics about Echo Hifis, you were quoted by someone as saying: "the hifi is nice on the rear wheel but its geometry ultimately holds you back from progressing'... or something similar along those lines. I'm not trying to be a cynical critical arse, but I just find it really odd how so many experienced riders, such as yourself, Ali C, and so on don't really like how the old Deng high BB frames rode... yet they are geometrically identical to the Kortz. and many many other modern frames like the Koxx Skys just to name a few.

1085ish wb, either +55/60 bb rise, and 375/380 stays. ....

Could it just be because you guys before were harshly judging high BB frames back in 05/06 due to most people not knowing the ideal bar/stem setup for them?

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Bigman, in one of my topics about Echo Hifis, you were quoted by someone as saying: "the hifi is nice on the rear wheel but its geometry ultimately holds you back from progressing'... or something similar along those lines. I'm not trying to be a cynical critical arse, but I just find it really odd how so many experienced riders, such as yourself, Ali C, and so on don't really like how the old Deng high BB frames rode... yet they are geometrically identical to the Kortz. and many many other modern frames like the Koxx Skys just to name a few.

1085ish wb, either +55/60 bb rise, and 375/380 stays. ....

Could it just be because you guys before were harshly judging high BB frames back in 05/06 due to most people not knowing the ideal bar/stem setup for them?

No, there realy are big differences between those frames, the Hifi was a horrid frame, All the old echo frames were 375mm chainstays, all new high BB frames such as the koxx, rockman etc are 380mm approximately as this is how it turns out when running the 18-15 gear ratio. It is hard to explain, but i have ridden almost all the old high BB deng frames and hated all of them, but the new breed of high BB frames are alot better. Although one difference would also be that people are now running better (Higher) front end setups (bars/stems) with the frames now, which makes a HUGE difference.

Even with the high bar and stem, the deng frames are still way to rear wheel friendly, and don't seem to ride right.

Adam

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No, there realy are big differences between those frames, the Hifi was a horrid frame, All the old echo frames were 375mm chainstays, all new high BB frames such as the koxx, rockman etc are 380mm approximately as this is how it turns out when running the 18-15 gear ratio. It is hard to explain, but i have ridden almost all the old high BB deng frames and hated all of them, but the new breed of high BB frames are alot better. Although one difference would also be that people are now running better (Higher) front end setups (bars/stems) with the frames now, which makes a HUGE difference.

Even with the high bar and stem, the deng frames are still way to rear wheel friendly, and don't seem to ride right.

Adam

But does 5mm actually make that huge a difference? I mean, just looking at it on a ruler. It's like nothing. I measured a mate's old GU to have 379 stays. So knowing that the stays and BB heights are more or less the same as 2010's high BB frames, what makes them so inferior? A lot of them also have the same front reach/wheelbase and headangle too

by the way, what is 2010's popular stem size and size of stackers for +55 and +60 frames?

I recall back when high BBs first came out in truck loads everyone thought things like 145x25, and other mod stems were good. Maybe they were toooo long for a stock?

Do longer stems feel more suited for higher bb stocks than lower bb? cos i seem to see tiny stems on lower bb stocks like 100/110x10

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I often thought about that myself; as the HiFi was the worst (really!) bike i have ever touched and my current Hydroxx LT is the best (pure trials) bike I have ever had...

edit: and with a new chain my chainstays are more 377ish than the theoretical 379...

Edited by wimmeretz
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It's a nice frame, except for the humpy toptube. Always a bit of a dealbreaker for me. But otherwise, a sweet frame just like the rest of the Rockman range! Geometry looks nice too.

I did too notice that stem preference for high BB has changed in the past few years. Before it used to all about 145x25, 160x25, ..just generally the smaller mod stems but still a bit huge for any stock? I am planning on riding a +55 frame, but am juggling with stem choices. 125x25 sounds good, but I am also tempted to try the 120x30 by TMS. Is there anything wrong with a front end that's angled a bit too high?

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Pro riders like Gilles, Vincent, and Kenny, pretty much well sort of kick started back that tread of using higher rise/longer stems around 2yrs ago, which are now commonplace use on todays stock riding/bikes. The most noticeable riding benefits over lower rise are low and high backwheel control, pivoting, angling, and turning the bike around, more room to throw your bodyweight, more comfortable frontwheel control particularly doing front-to-back moves. There are pretty much no downsides to running higher rise longer length stems (25-30 rise 125-145mm length) for todays riding. Ultimately, it is still a matter of personal choice

Edited by Rusevelt
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