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Over Tensioned Meta Vtt2 With Rubber Queen Rear, Cant Ride


Sethgun
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Hey guys,

Got a problem and need some advice. I cant get proper tension on my meta vtt2. Rear rim is a trialtech 47" wide, with conti rubber queen 2.4 and with the meta vtt2 frame, ive gotta have my axle mounted so its about 3mm from the end of my dropout for my rubber queen to fit (VERY TIGHT FIT) using a trialtech lite chain 3/32" and echo tr cams. When i got the wheel in the right spot, tension is just madly tight. Tight to the point where i turn the pedals and the rear wont freely spin, the over tension just blocks it. If I fit another link, its too loose. I cant bring the tyre in anymore as it will rub the bb shell. Ive tried a half link and 2 of them, still no fun. I dunno why people try a half link, the overall length is still the same or am I being given the wrong link from bike shops (they pretty much give me a link from a whole 3/32" half link chain) Are there any other chains that are slightly shorter or longer in link length to play with?

Only other option im thinking of is getting neon or viz cams and adding an extra full link, as Ive reached max on my non drive side cam to get the wheel aligned. The viz or neon cams give me about 10mm more adjustment over the echo tr cams. Only problem is to get tension then, my axle will be mounted practically right on the end of my dropouts. I dont wanna change tyres....or would you suggest a 16t screw on over my 15t? Front is an echo sl 108 freewheel 18t

Any thoughts?

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I know it might not be the best solution, but how about adding a full link and running a spoke tensioner?

This is what the half link should look like:

large_halflink332.jpg

Adam

yeh ive got a couple of thos half links on but really, they are still the same overall length as a full link thats what gets me. Spoke tensioner......where did i see that here? u got a link? I think one of the tarty boys did that in a post......

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Here is a picture of my spoke tensioner:

p6050410.jpg

p6050409.jpg

As you can see I have drilled a small hole in the axle spacer, the end of the spoke sits in this hole and then the spoke is coiled around the spacer twice and then extended down to the chain, you can see the bends I have added to the spoke so that the section that runs on the chain sits straight.

Adam

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Then you're doing it wrong... the point of a half link is that one of those can replace a 'full' link (that is one narrow and one wide link) of a normal chain so you can reduce the length of the chain by 1/2" (the length of a single link).

Actually yeh crap, ur right....if u put a narrow link together with the sides of a 2nd link, uve got an open end and a closed end (if that makes sense) a single half link gives u an open and closed end on a single link. Might have to play around and use 2 or 3 half links to get the tension spot on true? Its as if all i need is half a single link and ill be spot on, working with a few half links might end result in this somehow, ill play now :)

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Actually yeh crap, ur right....if u put a narrow link together with the sides of a 2nd link, uve got an open end and a closed end (if that makes sense) a single half link gives u an open and closed end on a single link. Might have to play around and use 2 or 3 half links to get the tension spot on true? Its as if all i need is half a single link and ill be spot on, working with a few half links might end result in this somehow, ill play now :)

You do realise that 2 half links make a full link right?

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If with a completely normal chain you're either just short or then just too long by adding another complete link (that is a pair of normal links) then by adding a single half link to the shorter chain you should be in the ballpark. You should never need to use more than one half link otherwise you're just weakening your chain without gaining anything.

You do realise that 2 half links make a full link right?

But two lefts don't make a right and two wrongs don't make a right. Right?

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can i do the spoke tensioner if im not running a front freewheel? Im running a hope pro II. And i dont have any spacers.

If I remember correctly someone drilled a small hole in the frame to put the spoke through instead of the spacer, As for no freewheel iI don't think it would make the slightest bit of difference to be honest.

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can i do the spoke tensioner if im not running a front freewheel? Im running a hope pro II. And i dont have any spacers.

I'm running a Pro 2 T with a spoke tensioner. Using the mech hanger bolt as the anchoring point for mine, then just wrapping it round between the dropout and my lockring on the little bit of axle sticking out. Running a 17t sprocket with mine - works fine (Y)

To Sethgun - is it a new or old chain? If it's new, you could replace a section of new links with older, stretched ones until the other links stretch a bit too. If it's an old chain, just put a full new one on. If it's old, using a 610 should help out as they don't stretch as much as 7 or 810s.

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If with a completely normal chain you're either just short or then just too long by adding another complete link (that is a pair of normal links) then by adding a single half link to the shorter chain you should be in the ballpark. You should never need to use more than one half link otherwise you're just weakening your chain without gaining anything.

But two lefts don't make a right and two wrongs don't make a right. Right?

Correct, however 3 lefts do make a right.

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I'm running a Pro 2 T with a spoke tensioner. Using the mech hanger bolt as the anchoring point for mine, then just wrapping it round between the dropout and my lockring on the little bit of axle sticking out. Running a 17t sprocket with mine - works fine (Y)

To Sethgun - is it a new or old chain? If it's new, you could replace a section of new links with older, stretched ones until the other links stretch a bit too. If it's an old chain, just put a full new one on. If it's old, using a 610 should help out as they don't stretch as much as 7 or 810s.

hey bud, its a new chain i got from you guys. Its a trialtech lite 3/32" . Rear rim is a trialtech and rubber queen with echo tr cams. Such small clearance with the vtt2 and this tyre. At the point where my tire runs smooth without touching my bb, ive maxed out my cam on the non drive side (drive side looks like its maxed too, sitting about the apex of the bulge on the cam-furthest point out) and axle sits a little more than halfway back of the dropout (this is without a chain) with the chain on at this point, its stupidly tight and stops from spinning. If i put a halflink on, its too much. Do you think i should go for a cam with more play like, the neon or viz! cams? They give about 10mm more adjustment so it should sit better with the halflink im guessing. Then once its stretched, maybe try again without the halflink? How much would a chain like this stretch out? Should i be looking at a different chain that has slightly longer or shorter links, or are all chains same link length?

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Been having similar problems with a RQ not fitting a GU, decided to change the frame. It was the only solution. If you were running a freehub, you could experiment with a wide variety of cog sizes which wouldn't change the gear ratio but change the CS length. Here's an idea, you might want to upgrade to a Pro2 or something? That would have worked with me but I refused to run a chain tensioner so my movements were VERY limited taking into account the vertical dropouts on GUs.

As for chain stretch I had a KMC 810 which stretched over half a link. However, it's usually more like a quarter. With that chain I had perfect tension using an 18:18 gear ratio on an old A1 (372mm CS), then changed to 18:17 and a new chain and I could barely get the wheel into the dropouts.

Oh and correct me if I'm wrong but aren't KHE Collapse chains a little shorter than K810's?

Edited by Greetings
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Been having similar problems with a RQ not fitting a GU, decided to change the frame. It was the only solution. If you were running a freehub, you could experiment with a wide variety of cog sizes which wouldn't change the gear ratio but change the CS length. Here's an idea, you might want to upgrade to a Pro2 or something? That would have worked with me but I refused to run a chain tensioner so my movements were VERY limited taking into account the vertical dropouts on GUs.

As for chain stretch I had a KMC 810 which stretched over half a link. However, it's usually more like a quarter. With that chain I had perfect tension using an 18:18 gear ratio on an old A1 (372mm CS), then changed to 18:17 and a new chain and I could barely get the wheel into the dropouts.

Oh and correct me if I'm wrong but aren't KHE Collapse chains a little shorter than K810's?

im thinkin bc my cams are maxed out, instead of buying ones with longer adjustments im just gonna stick a bigger washer under the cam bolt so it presses on that (effectively giving more adjustment) running halflink with axle close to the end and hopefully itll stretch enough after a while to ditch the halflink...or somehow bring it closer in the dropouts. Dont wanna be riding every day with an axle mounted 1-2 mm from the end of the dropout!

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George, if you still have trouble with it after next week (i'm free after the 15th, so 16th onwards - but sure hope its solved by then).

I'm happy to have a look and help fix it up for you if we go for a ride or if you bring the bike to the comp :)

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Oh and correct me if I'm wrong but aren't KHE Collapse chains a little shorter than K810's?

Nope, same pitch. Same as every bicycle-related chain out there (apart from experimental BMX ones...), so that won't really help much.

In terms of chain stretch, Kool chains (710 and 810s) stretch a fair bit more than 510s or 610s. They all stretch a shit-tonne less than half-link chains do, though.

We've got a Meta built up here, and with 18:15 the axle's slap-bang in the middle of the dropouts. We've got a Michelin WildRock'r on it which is the same width (62mm) as the RQ, but the RQ is 1mm taller (54mm vs. 55mm). It's pretty tight with the Michelin in there, so I can see how it'd be worse with the RQ, but yeah - it looks like if you could just run a couple of links from an old chain 'til your new chain stretches out a bit - probably after the first few rides - then it should all be fine. We've got some Try-All CNC cams on this build, but they're within the adjustment range of the TRs where the wheel is now.

EDIT: This was Mark, not Ads. To the log-out button :P

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I've got a Der Kaiser on my VTT2, and my mate has a Rubber Queen on his. Both are a tight fit, but if the wheel is placed correctly there should be no rubbing. I rode a comp Saturday and Sunday in very muddy conditions and there was no drag. My only suggestion would be to try riding it a bit with the chain overtight, and the chainstretch and grubscrews setting into the snails should cause everything to loosen up.

Oh in case it matters I'm running a Rock Hole rim w/ a single cam on the drive side.

Edited by JKH
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I've got a Der Kaiser on my VTT2, and my mate has a Rubber Queen on his. Both are a tight fit, but if the wheel is placed correctly there should be no rubbing. I rode a comp Saturday and Sunday in very muddy conditions and there was no drag. My only suggestion would be to try riding it a bit with the chain overtight, and the chainstretch and grubscrews setting into the snails should cause everything to loosen up.

Oh in case it matters I'm running a Rock Hole rim w/ a single cam on the drive side.

Yeh thanks for that guys. As is, its a little past halfway on the dropouts and if i take the chain off, it spins freely so its def the chain but its still rideable. With my weight on the bike and I stop pedalling, it doesnt just stop dead so thats a good thing. Ill set up my brakes now and after a bit of stretch, it should be good (fingers crossed).

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