ogre Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 the tilted drop outs surely do naff all if the weight of the rider is enough to move the hub to tension the chain, surely stamping on the pedals would drag the wheel out of line? or am i being stupid and not seeing the cam lugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Best system I've ever used on a trials frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 that makes more sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Brilliant idea on the dropouts, makes heaps of sense BB is a good idea in my opinion...they'll pretty much stay with the frames anyway so its hardly much hassle for anyone, just means you dont have to faff round with shell widths and shitty bearings all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Best system I've ever used on a trials frame. AH I see, that is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Rainbird Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Zoo looks lovely, but is a tad long and chainstays are too long gays It's considerably shorter than your current bike, that you've been happy with for years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigman Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Zoo looks lovely, but is a tad long and chainstays are too long gays Surely because the dropouts are horizontal your chanstay length is actualy dependant on gear ratio, so even if they state that the chainstays are 383mm if you are running 18-15 it will be 380mm etc...... I do think the frame look quite good, I do still think that no matter what sort of rim brake mount you have on a trials bike you should always have some kind of booster welded to the frame! Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 I prefer the geometry on my because. Whew, that's a relief, now I don't want to swap frames AGAIN... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 The last time Echo's looked any different was back in 2005/2006 when they had hydroformed bottom tubes. From then on they have been the entry level simpletons frame, with the rest of the range offering something more. Personally I like what's going on here, they're working on maximum functionality, low weight, good strength and low price. Most other frames on the market only combine 2 of these points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Burrows Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 I can see the 'minor' difference in the Zoo range, but its had the same design since it first came out, (I mean where the top tube meets the seat stay(I will try and find a picture to show you what I mean)), a lot of other companies have used the similar design in the past,(koxx and onza) and they no longer use that, because it tends to be heavier, as its a little more complicated, than what you get with a simpler design. I think i just like to see companies try new things, and push the design limit, to try and make it look different and lighter. I think all Deng frames are always going to be same, because Deng has no imagination.... example, he comes out with a 24'' range and makes it the spitting image of the 26'' range! Also the BB thing is just stupid! I agree with Ali, why are companies not coming out with +30mm and lower bb's!!! GRRR! You contradict yourself so much in this post! You want designers to push the design limit but then have instantly written off new ideas as stupid. You want frames to look different but then argue they should all conform to one design because its lighter and simpler?!? Obviously these frames aren't to your taste but there are a lot of people who will appreciate the new features. I for one have been after a frame like the new Zoo for years. Just a shame it doesn't have last years geo and is about 12 months too late for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Gibbs Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 If these "spanish" style bb's can withstand the beatings a bmx'er can dish out i dont see why a trials specific one wont work just aswell. As for the looks i agree they look abit... well meh! I prefer the older frames for looks imo the zoo! short wb modstock pitbull was one of the best looking frames of recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 If these "spanish" style bb's can withstand the beatings a bmx'er can dish out i dont see why a trials specific one wont work just aswell. Didn't have any problems with my Urban frame when I ran it, Stan didn't either. Some of Echo's riders over in the East do some serious moves on their's too with no issues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greetings Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Some of Echo's riders over in the East do some serious moves on their's too with no issues... Do you mean to say that Echo actually test their products? Serious question here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Object Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 I've been using Spanish BBs on other bikes for a couple of years and think it's a real step forward for a Trials company to make that leap, well done Deng. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 The Echos look like they have a nice Ti gleam to them. Weird lighting i know. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the mod is still using snail cams yet the stock and 24" are using the integrated bolt? Echo you're a funny one. Is that a new line of rim and bar too? Seeing as it would be normal to see the orange scheme followed through on but it's not. (that makes no sense). Also new 'echo' tyres? So, erm, Mark, when will you have these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Do you mean to say that Echo actually test their products? Serious question here. I was refering more to the videos of their riders on the Urbans. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the mod is still using snail cams yet the stock and 24" are using the integrated bolt? Echo you're a funny one. Is that a new line of rim and bar too? Seeing as it would be normal to see the orange scheme followed through on but it's not. (that makes no sense). Also new 'echo' tyres? So, erm, Mark, when will you have these? As I said earlier in the thread, there'll be a delay on us receiving them. The closeness of the stays on the 20" frame would probably make it a bit more awkward to put that style of drop-out on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 That was supposed to come across as a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 The Echos look like they have a nice Ti gleam to them. Weird lighting i know. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the mod is still using snail cams yet the stock and 24" are using the integrated bolt? Echo you're a funny one. Is that a new line of rim and bar too? Seeing as it would be normal to see the orange scheme followed through on but it's not. (that makes no sense). Also new 'echo' tyres? So, erm, Mark, when will you have these? The tyres on the stocks are just kenda kinetics, and the mods look to be the echo luna tyres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirt jumper jake Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 Do you mean to say that Echo actually test their products? Serious question here. Yes, its called the tunnicliffe test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoox Posted November 30, 2010 Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 (edited) ... the Echo disc is almost definitely something catered towards the domestic market in China as all other decent hydro brakes are from North American or European brands which are horribly expensive there. Here in China one set of Echo SL rim brakes costs 750 Yuan whereas a set of Magura HS-33s can be purchased for 638 Yuan. So it is not always the case that Western products are more expensive in China. Maybe the Echo SL brake is a lot better than Magura? I recently paid a visit to a Beijing retailer and he recommended the Maggies over the Echo brakes, although he does stock both. It could be that the Chinese tend to believe that foreign products are of higher quality, particularly German products. I am still going to buy the Echos just because I am curious, having used Maggies my whole trials life I would like to compare and post my thoughts on this forum. As for the new 2011 frames, they look the dogs in my opinion. I think the new Zoo! incorporates everything I wished the Piranha had, so I can't wait for them to become available. Don't know whether Echo will release the new models to the Chinese market first and then the foreign market or the other way round, as the foreign market is probably larger. I also wonder if they plan to release upgraded 2011 hubs too, I'd like to see wider flange 135mm rear hubs, more like the Try-All 'H' hub, which would give better chaing alingment and a stiffer rear end. Edited November 30, 2010 by Scoox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigman Posted November 30, 2010 Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 I also wonder if they plan to release upgraded 2011 hubs too, I'd like to see wider flange 135mm rear hubs, more like the Try-All 'H' hub, which would give better chaing alingment and a stiffer rear end. Not sure why this is a major problem though, I ran an echo TR hub for more than 6 months with a single wall try-all hOle rim and never felt that the wheel was not stiff enough or that my chain line was realy that bad, never had a problem with skipping chains or anything...... Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskimo Posted November 30, 2010 Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 The tyres on the stocks are just kenda kinetics, and the mods look to be the echo luna tyres? Misunderstood twice in one post. I'm on a roll! 'echo' / echo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponge Posted November 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 Here in China one set of Echo SL rim brakes costs 750 Yuan whereas a set of Magura HS-33s can be purchased for 638 Yuan. So it is not always the case that Western products are more expensive in China. Maybe the Echo SL brake is a lot better than Magura? I recently paid a visit to a Beijing retailer and he recommended the Maggies over the Echo brakes, although he does stock both. It could be that the Chinese tend to believe that foreign products are of higher quality, particularly German products. I am still going to buy the Echos just because I am curious, having used Maggies my whole trials life I would like to compare and post my thoughts on this forum. There are always exceptions indeed . The case is true for SL rim brakes, but they're pretty expensive to make to begin with. But to be fair, 100 RMB is only around £10 so the difference isn't too great compared to the Western prices. I lived in China for almost a year on a year abroad studying, and have been to China many times before and found that most parts like frames (esp. the newer simpler less CNC'd frames) are incredibly cheap if they were under Chinese brands. Zoo Lynx was 250 yuan in a store in Beijing, whereas something like a mid-range Monty 221Pr cost over 1000 rmb last time I saw. But yeah, overall it's surprising and convenient that Chinese brand frames are so cheap in China! Scoox, do you happen to know Huang Wu Yu by chance? He was sponsored by Zhi, and now rides an Orange Sky, he's supposed to be one of the best comp riders in China at the mo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoox Posted November 30, 2010 Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 Scoox, do you happen to know Huang Wu Yu by chance? He was sponsored by Zhi, and now rides an Orange Sky, he's supposed to be one of the best comp riders in China at the mo? I am afraid I don't, where does he live? I am near Shanghai... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirt jumper jake Posted November 30, 2010 Report Share Posted November 30, 2010 Spanish BB's - epic fail. Get a portuguese one then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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