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Matt Vandart

Protection Trained Dogs

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Ok dudes I have 2 dobermans that are going through protection training.

I have always had protection trained dogs and have recently been told that if my dogs do carry out their trained duties, i.e bite an aggressor I could be liable for prosecution and a civil case.

Does anyone know the actual facts of this?

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Why do you need a dog to protect you?

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Why do you need a dog to protect you?

Well if she's not a looker...

Ba dum tshh

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Lolz,

@ Simpson- I have reasons that I will not go into here in detail.

One is I am not always here, I have a family, I go away sometimes for months, its not so bad where I live now but more of a hangover from where we used to live, if we have to move back they will already be trained, so that is good

I am also old enough and wise enough from experience to know that I don't give a f**k how hard you think you are, you're pretty much f**ked against multiple attackers/intruders, trained dogs evens things up a bit.

Also why not?

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When the mob are about to attack, would the chance you'd get prosecuted stop you from allowing your dogs to help?

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I am afraid I don't know for sure... In theory yes you would because they are your property and are in many instances a lethal weapon. However, if it is legal to own such dogs (you said you have owned them before so I am sure you know) I would imagine you would be able to plead self defence... Just need to make sure that, as in all self defence cases, the response to the threat is proportional. Can't be having the dogs maul and kill a 16 year old kid who is chancing his luck stealing some plant pots... Haha!

Should also add these circumstances that your not willing to go in to detail about may cause you to be completely f**ked anyway if it makes you appear to be a threat to the community. You should be able to get legal advice on the matter. Try phoning the Citizens Advice Bureau - if they can't answer the question they will be able to put you on to someone who can. Alternatively if you have time you may find the answer in the Dangerous Dogs Act.

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Ah, I hadn't thought of that, thanks.

Well one example of something that occurred where I used to live was some dudes broke into a house round the corner from us, chap came home while they were there. They jumped him, gagged him, tied him to a radiator and proceeded to rob everything in the house carpets and all.

Loads of other shit like that went down, another guy had his head stoved in with a shovel while he was kipping on the sofa, another guy tried to cut his way through the dudes front door, two doors up,with a chainsaw ( a trained police dog was used in that situation as a distractor while the copper smashed his head in from behind) the junkie situation just got mental,which is why we finally left.

I also got stabbed once by a junkie who didn't even demand f**k all, just wired, and if you have ever been in this situation you will know that however much training you have had, when shit gets real your pretty f**ked. Luckily it hit my pelvic bone in my hip so just a nasty cut and alot of blood.

Our house was robbed once when we were sleeping, which was when I decided to get another dog, we hadn't had one for a couple of years, and we were not robbed again. I couldn't go away to work leaving my family in that shit without at least some deterrent or protection.

As my business is currently struggling along with many others at the moment there is a chance we will have to move back to that house which is currently rented out, although I have heard it has calmed down alot there in the last 6 years.

What my question really is: would a trained dog be treated the same as an untrained dog in the eyes of the law?

I would be devastated if one of my dogs got put down for protecting my family and doing what it was trained to do.

Surely a trained dog is less of a risk to the community than an untrained dog?

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Got to look at it from the eyes of the law, the dog will the trained to attack intruders. Not just anyone who comes in the door.

wasn't there a guy who shot some dude that was robbing his place and he claimed it was self defence. Id speak to the police or dog training experts. its a bit of a grey area.

My mums a cop so ill get her view on things.

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I asked my mam and partner (both cops) didnt explain about your personal situation.

But they said if there trained to attack on command and only your thge only one that can make them attack then you might be okay. but if there just being aggressive for no reason then they might see it differently.

I'd love a doberman but its a small house, once I'v got my own place though I shall have 1. :)

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I know very little on the formalities of this area which is why I am asking as many questions as I am answering. However, you accredits such training? For example, if it is equivelant to the police training where the dog is trained to attack on command then I imagine you could argue it was self defence and protection.

Like I said to me (having studied little bits of law) you would need to show it if proportional... If the dog bit and wounded a man wileding a chainsaw where your family were at home then I can imagine you may be okay. However, I know this is a terrible thing to say but the dog is trained to do a job and I am sure you are aware that if it does happen the dog may be put down (regardless of civil proceedings - which couldn't have the dog put down) and if that is the only punishment surely it is worth having them anyway?

Edit Re: Matthew - surely if you are the only one who can have the dogs attack on command it makes it kind of useless in the situation you are describing (i.e you're out of the house leaving your family behind?) If the dogs are just trained to be aggressive you won't have a leg to stand on and will get bollocksed in just about every way possible.

Edited by Rojo

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That seems to be the sensible thing to do. You say you have children? The thing I would be concerned about is the fact that it doesn't matter how well trained they are, they are still animals and I wouldn't be happy having dogs like that in a house with children.

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Never had a problem before and I grew up in a house with them as well.

Used to climb all over them and pull their ears and shit, I used to ride one of them like a horse when I was really small.

dont do any of that now, well I sometimes pull their ears lolz

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Right this may just be me, but this thread is f**ked up!

Your away for long periods of time

You need Protection but can't tell us why....

Are you a secret agent?

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Lolz, yeah you found me out.

I have explained above.

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I have done some very brief browsing and come accross some websites. If you search for personal protection dogs you will come accross dozens of companies who offer such services. I am sure you will find (hopefully) that they can help.

Edit: didn't actually read anything from the website I linked to - doesn't apply to dwellinghouses. oops :/

Edited by Rojo

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Seems to me no matter how well you train a dog, it's probably more likely to turn on your own family than an aggressor. Maybe put the money into a new place rather than training a dog?

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Seems to me no matter how well you train a dog, it's probably more likely to turn on your own family than an aggressor.

And your source is?

I'm not for or against it really, just interested to see how you can justify that kind of comment.

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JT that's just not correct in my experience, I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

These dogs go through very specific physical, response, temperament and psyhc. tests,you can't just train any old dog this stuff.

For a start you would be surprised how many dogs will NOT bite a human no matter how much you train it.

It is not breed specific either, no matter what the media will tell you, no particular breed is more likely to take to it than others.

The reason dogs bite people (that are not trained to) is down to early development and training (or lack of more specifically)

If the dogs don't pass these tests they are not trained (by people who know what they are doing anyway) because basically it's a waste of time and money, the dog will either just not take to it or you end up with a dog with a f**ked head that is no use.

Like I said above I have lived with dogs trained like this my whole life apart from a few years here and there, none of them have ever attacked a family member however NO dog should ever be left alone with small children (toddlers) EVER.

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It is not breed specific either, no matter what the media will tell you, no particular breed is more likely to take to it than others.

But with selective breeding some breeds have become more aggressive so isn't it right some breeds are more aggressive?

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But with selective breeding some breeds have become more aggressive so isn't it right some breeds are more aggressive?

Statement and question at the same time :P

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Well yes if you look at the proper dodgy breeds.

However unselective breeding can cause even worse problems.

Golden retrievers for example have become a very big problem in America and is the third most likely dog to bite a human, people are naturally cautious of dogs like pitbulls and rotweilers (1st and second) but golden retrievers have a perceived image of happy family softies even though they are very big and powerfull dogs, many are larger than your average pitbull, this is due to puppy farms churning them out.

You do have to take into consideration that many of the smaller breeds are complete and utter c**ts but the outcome is not so devastating, many small dog bites go unreported.

Anyway this is going west a bit, as was stated above the actual dog that is to undergo training is assessed very carefully before it is accepted for training no matter what breed.

Edited by Matt Vandart

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And your source is?

I'm not for or against it really, just interested to see how you can justify that kind of comment.

It's more of a probability thing for me. A trained dog trained to attack a target is going to be around you, your spouse and your kids pretty much constantly, however it'll only be around it's target once for a couple of mins... maybe never. It seems that, going purely by the time spent with non targets and targets that the dog would likely confuse a non target with a target than actually getting it right.

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But surely if its with non targets a lot it would almost cast iron know that they are friends not foe?

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I think I may have found the answer to the initial question. Are you training the dogs to be protection dogs or attack dogs? There appears to be a significant difference in the eyes of the law...

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