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Matt Vandart

Protection Trained Dogs

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It's more of a probability thing for me. A trained dog trained to attack a target is going to be around you, your spouse and your kids pretty much constantly, however it'll only be around it's target once for a couple of mins... maybe never. It seems that, going purely by the time spent with non targets and targets that the dog would likely confuse a non target with a target than actually getting it right.

See below...

But surely if its with non targets a lot it would almost cast iron know that they are friends not foe?

That was my way of thinking too, they build a relationship with the family and are cautious of those they don't recognise. The only time I've heard of it going wrong is if someone is dressed up or creeping around in the dark and the dog can't identify you. If you have a trained dog in the house you'd be stupid to creep around anyway!

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Protection

I think you should be fine... You need to consider that any dog that attacks a human being can be put down - regardless of training situation... Best bet is giving one of the training companies a call and make sure you follow the law to the letter!

Having read about the dogs a bit online they sounds incredible... I personally could never have one in a house with children (I even lock my springer spaniel out the house when we have kids in and he couldn't bite his way out of a paper bag).

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this may be a stupid point, but on the grand scheme of things, I actually wouldnt care.

If the question is not would you be safe having such a dog around children(which I know you would be, providing the correct dog was chosen and appropriately trained). And the question being what would happen to the dog if anything happened - that dog is a family pet, but its also a tool, there to serve a purpose. If you get a £500 fine and lose a dog, but your family dont get their head stoved in by 3 smackheads armed with tyre irons who are intent on taking your TV,DVD and blender, Id call that money well spent.

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As usual you make a very good point Mr Finger-er.

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You're away for a few months at a time - who will be responsible for looking after these dogs while you're away?

As you may know these dogs will require a lot of training and excercise - do you live in an area where these dogs can run about and burn off some energy?

I dont think trained dogs are the way forward, these must also be trained from a very young age so are your current dogs fit and young enough to do this?

My personal opinion is that if you live in such an area you should probably consider moving away as your kids will be bought up in a rather nasty environment...

Also, if your really serious about this then ask this question elsewhere, we ride bikes and I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified enough to give you the answer you're looking for.

Fair enough you may ask the police, but they're not lawyers and probably dont know the full in's and out's.

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Fair enough, but if you read the thread the answer to all the questions you pose are within.

Quick answers are:

My Missus, she has done for years.

I now live out in the sticks so yes

They have just past the age of assessment, dogs should not be trained in protection until they are 2yrs old (assessment is at about 15mnths)

This isn't me asking about protection training I am well versed in that aspect, it is from a comment someone made to me about the legal stand on protection trained dogs.

I asked on here because it never ceases to amaze me how much the people of trials forum know as a collective.

there are people on here from pretty much every walk of life.This question, I am pretty sure is not outwith that knowledge, some fairly good answers have been put forward already.

It is also not in trials Chat, more bizarre questions have been asked.

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But with selective breeding some breeds have become more aggressive so isn't it right some breeds are more aggressive?

I don't think he's saying that some breeds aren't more aggressive than others — if he is, he's clearly talking BS — he's suggesting that this training isn't limited to certain breeds.

I personally find the whole concept of training an otherwise peaceful animal to mame people on demand ******* terrifying, but I then I haven't been stabbed before.

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Yes it is pretty shit really, at the end of the day though many people think that their dog will protect them if they are attacked, they are living in dream land, with most dogs, excluding a few breeds, they will do one as soon as you kick it.

English bullterriers are one such dog that won't labradoors are another.

This is not due to an inbredd aggression, these two breeds just generally have high pain thresholds and very low self preservation instincts.

Any other dog without training and you can pretty much forget it.

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Where did you used to live? Sounds like a fun place :ermm:

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You seen Twin town, you seen my old house, literally, its in the movie lolz

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I havn't seen that, no. A film? I'm guessing somewhere in South Wales?

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Yeah, a pretty shitty part of a pretty shitty city, Swansea, to be fair last time I was up there, the neighbours said it had calmed down alot since I left (???????)

Typical lolz.

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The only explanation for that is that you were the one causing all the trouble... ;) Did you try to cut through your own door with a chainsaw? I made that mistake too once, very embarassing...

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I want your dogs, look (without sounding too feminine) gorgeous in your pics

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Got an answer:

Section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871

Any court of summary jurisdiction may take cognizance of a complaint that a dog is dangerous, and not kept under proper control, and if it appears to the court having cognizance of such complaint that such dog is dangerous, the court may make an order in a summary way directing the dog to be kept by the owner under proper control or destroyed.

Basically the above means that if a complaint is made that a dog is dangerous and is not kept under proper control and it goes to court then that court can make a ruling that the owner should keep the dog under proper control or order the dog destroyed.

"Proper control is defined as

on a lead and muzzled…

Dangerous is defined as:

Not if the dog was dangerous at the time of the offence but is dangerous… so the dog may even have acted dangerously but not be deemed dangerous for the purposes of the act.

The court will be looking at whether the dog is likely to cause injury rather than caused. This makes it very important to get an expert behaviourist who can stand up for you and state that the dog is not dangerous. So if your dog gets into trouble get a behaviourist in… a good one… who will be able to truthfully state in court that your dog is not dangerous. Having said this a court can deem a dog dangerous on the basis of just one incident but it would have to be a biggie."

-Trevor Cooper, a lawyer specialising in Canine law

Also - Someone who is unlawfully in your home is not protected by the act but… the dog cannot be used as a weapon. (so no setting your chi onto a burglar)The dog however may defend itself.

As far as I'm aware the law does not differentiate between Sch training and DIY bite training.

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Obviously the burglar will be attacking the dog so it will be defending itself :shifty:

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If the dog is defending you or itself from an intruder with mal-intent, then you should be alright. Never mind the Dogs Act - you're entitled to defend yourself and your home with reasonable force. And that doesn't mean minimum force, it means reasonable force. If a guy smashed in through the front door wielding a knife and had its face taken off by your dog, then it's too bad for him.

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Cba to quote it but someone said about certain breeds being more aggressive isnt true, Say both parents are fooked in the head, that will carry on to the pups, and seeming dogs like staffies have been churned out, the amount of dogs that wont be able to think properly has risen. Its not just about the parents, more about the line of grandparents too.......... if you get me. A lot of people don't realize that.

We have friends that live in Garston with 2 guard dogs, they have been through training and have now been in the family for 6 years. But there the nicest dogs, so long as the owner 'introduces' you. Once the first meeting with them there fine, you can come in and out as you please. They had there house broken into back in 2010 and the dogs persuded them into the garden where they were jumping over the gate, one of them got there leg caught in the gate and broke his ankle and then got caught and he tried getting away with saying the dogs did it (Its all on tape though). The police didnt even bother doing it properly, as he was a known burglar he got sent to do community service and nothing was said to the owners.

You got nothing to worry about pal.

On a side note as its just been a thought recently, i didnt realise Bull terriers were guard dogs? Thinking about getting one just haven't really looked into it yet.

Possibly guard dog. :D

Edited by TROYston

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Cba to quote it but someone said about certain breeds being more aggressive isnt true, Say both parents are fooked in the head, that will carry on to the pups, and seeming dogs like staffies have been churned out, the amount of dogs that wont be able to think properly has risen. Its not just about the parents, more about the line of grandparents too.......... if you get me. A lot of people don't realize that.

That's the same thing though... Would you say a Pitbull as a breed is more aggressive than a Dachshund in general?

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That's the same thing though... Would you say a Pitbull as a breed is more aggressive than a Dachshund in general?

Like i said its down to the parents, grandparents etc, After a few years of badly breeding a even a shitzsu you could get one to be violent. Its not just what dog it is.

Breeds such as Pitbulls have bad names because of the fashion associated with them, same as Staffies same as Japanese Tosa's. Go back to when they were first about, before the boom, they were fine. Popularity kicks in breeding gets worse and worse, the dogs in a sense get more and more stupid and it leads them on to a bad name.

Two stupids dont make a smart, Jeremy Kyle proved that. ;)

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That's the same thing though... Would you say a Pitbull as a breed is more aggressive than a Dachshund in general?

No

English bull terriers make excellent protection dogs, one of the best.

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