The Car Thread

[AdamR28]

3 hours ago, CC12345678910 said:

Slight backtrack in topic timewise I know but I've been offline so sue me.

Papers in the post

Seriously though thanks for the heads up and link to that article, some good stuff on Speedhunters. I've not looked there before as I've not been bothered with making the car look like it crashed through a branch of Halfords, but will do going forward.

The car is actually pretty much ready for the first outing now which is Saturday all being well, and I did vent out the bonnet just not as extreme as some solutions! The rad is left as standard but ducted in and out, so I'm hoping that will reduce drag a fair chunk.

A few pics...

Now pretty much bang on 750kg, which will do me.

Gut feel is that I'm going to need a rear wing to balance things out, but we'll see...

 

Maybe I'll try and go full McLaren Elva sometime No wind in the face at 70mph, apparently!

 

[AdamR28]

And some stupid aero bits from this morning... By my reckoning, just this will be enough to improve the top speed of the car by 3mph!

 

[aener]

Pictures and diagrams are great, but you just can't beat a visual demonstration of something working like that.

[forteh]

Having watched that video I think I'll definitely aero the cross bars on the roof rack and the leading edge of the solar panel

[AdamR28]

Well, the aerofoil thing flapped about like buggery so I ripped it off, and the steering wheel nearly fell off, but other than that...

The aero works - surprisingly well. The car has natural understeer at low speeds (really obvious on the sighting laps), yet wants to swap ends at high speeds. It's also pretty fast in a straight line. It also appears my engine is a 2 stroke, as it burns oil and fuel in a 1:40 ratio. But who cares, it's a lot of fun!

Upgrades planned: Mainly working the rear floor to sort the high speed balance. Found a great article (which I am guessing you had a hand in Dave? @monkeyseemonkeydo ) to help figure out the relevant geometries for a functional diffuser: https://www.racetechmag.com/2017/08/willem-toet-explains-motorsport-diffusers/

Obviously a car with marshmallow-like suspension is never going to have optimal aero, but if I can get the car balanced - even by reducing front downforce / adding some lift back in - that'll do nicely.

 

[manuel]

That article looks like it’s complicated  

Why not go full Gordon Murray and get a fan on there 

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

7 hours ago, Adam@TartyBikes said:

Found a great article (which I am guessing you had a hand in Dave? @monkeyseemonkeydo ) to help figure out the relevant geometries for a functional diffuser: https://www.racetechmag.com/2017/08/willem-toet-explains-motorsport-diffusers/

Hehe, yeah all that diffuser body work was done at Southampton and we still have and use that model! I'm also hoping to hook up with Xin and Willem on a bit of consultancy work soon too :).

[manuel]

Question for Dave...

if Adam slaps on a diffuser that’s reasonably effective, I presume reducing the ride height will increase downforce and relatively evenly? What about side skirts? If you added something like they used on old f1 cars (rubber as far as I remember for a full seal) what sort of performance gain would you get if any?

 

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

There are limits to how well it'll work and at what point the flow will 'choke'. The diffuser itself doesn't generate the downforce, that's done by the low pressure (caused by fast flowing air) acting on the lower surface of the car. The diffuser works by returning that low pressure air back to ambient as efficiently as possible. Reducing the rideheight will work to a point and then it'll just suddenly stop working which, since the car will be naturally moving up and down to a degree (on it's marshmallow like suspension!), you don't want that happening unexpectedly. That's partly why you see F1 cars running quite extreme rake angles (Red Bull being the one that springs to mind)- they make the 'throat' of the system at the front of the underbody and the rest of the floor acts partly as a diffuser which can be tuned for what happens at high speed when your downforce winds on without risking a sudden, catastrophic loss of downforce.

Sliding skirts do make a big difference and are used to seal in that low pressure flow that you want beneath the car. They're usually illegal in most classes since rules tend to have a minimum ride height. My gut feeling would be that for a floor that's working fairly well adding skirts would increase the downforce being generated by 40% or so.

[manuel]

Yeah ok to the first part - and that I guess is why they added the plank in f1 to remove the chances of going over a bump and losing all downforce by floor height being zero. 
 

to the second part - that is a lot!! And also yeah with the marshmallows none of this was in mind as a suggestion, just interest. 
 

with that much extra so easily available from the floor of an f1 car, it makes you wonder why they bother with the big ugly and incredibly complex and sensitive wings that possibly make it so hard to follow and pass? 

[Luke Rainbird]

Lazy copypasta:

We only went and won!

Conditions were damp and greasy in the morning, so we stuck the wets on for quali and following a fantastic drive, @Prawny Baby managed to stick it on pole.

With little to do except top up fluids and eat cheesy chips, we spent most of the time before the race scratching our heads about which tyres to run. It was damp with light rain all day, and despite several sessions before our race there wasn't a clear dry line evolving so we made the call to stick with wets and headed off to the assembly area super early because we're still the new boys after all.

The race was slippery, with cars falling off the track left, right and centre. We were no exception, dropping back to 8th position after a couple of incidents, but managed to claw our way back up to 3rd.

Our 45 minute race was the longest dry period of the day, and towards the end a dry line was beginning to appear, and the few competitors who had opted for dry tyres started to pick up the pace. With the Porsche of Warren Allen closing the gap quickly, it was going to be tight, and we were still some 20 seconds behind the front runners.

We were able to hold him off until the chequered flag, and crossed the line 3rd overall, 2nd in class. It would have been the most epic end to our first season to have secured a win, but we were happy enough with 2nd and started loading up.

Then the phonecall came in, and we discovered that first over the line had exceeded the pit lane speed limit and been given a 32s penalty, bumping us up to 2nd overall and 1st in our class. We'd only gone and bloody done it!

First season for us, with a few lessons learned along the way, but to come away from it on the top step was truly incredible. Massive effort from everyone, congratulations to @teammoarwin for their class finish too, and a huge thank you to all the marshals without win none of this could have gone ahead.

Video coming soon(ish)!

[AdamR28]

Awesome stuff gents, look forward to the videos!

 

In semi-related news, took my daily to a sprint event at Cadwell this weekend, which was brilliant fun. A different setup to normal - with 2 different layouts, cumulative scores for the 6 runs rather than 'best run counts', and penalties for hitting cones / falling off the track. A bit like a rally, really.

Despite some much more potent and non-standard machinery, including one guy who considered his ITB'd-standalone-ECU'd-Ohlins-dampered-Enkei-RPF1-wheeled-bucketed-and-harnessed MX-5 to be 'standard', I ended up 4th (of 17) in 'Standard' class.

The night runs using 90s Japanese candles were... 'interesting'. Not had the adrenaline shakes for a LONG time, but on Sunday that buzz was back

 

Thanks a lot for your aero input Dave, great to have some known reliable info! I have a few bits and bobs to play with before my next track day now.

From what I can gather Rowan, skirts are banned in F1 after issues with them sticking meant instant and huge drops in downforce at critical times. There are also strict rules regarding sizes / positions of other aero devices, so they have to use the wings to try and claw some of the gains back.

Here's a good little video:

From what I can gather there will be even stricter reductions in wing downforce for 2022, which will be balanced out by more allowance for ground effects - which will leave air coming off the back of the cars with reduced wake.

[manuel]

Yeah I’m really looking forward to 2022, just a shame the ‘rona pushed it back a year.

loving the first pic - wheel off the ground over the curbs!

[CurtisRider]

I know most of you with classic minis have upgraded your engines but hopefully you may be able to help anyway.

I have a BMC mini 916 tractor with an A series diesel in it (largely the same as an A series petrol block), it uses the same Lucas C40 dynamo as most minis (from what I can decipher). Unfortunately the original dynamo is long gone, and with it was the fan and pulley assembly.

Have any of you any idea where I can buy a regular (non uprated fancy thing) pulley and fan (15mm ID with keyway) for a mini? I don't mind having to modify it in some way and if any of you happen to have one for sale then even better!

The closest I've found is:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lucas-Acr-Alternator-Fan-And-Pulley-A115-A133-23Acr-15mm-Shaft-Mure-Acrxitassy/171569929919?hash=item27f25d5ebf:g:eHoAAOSwLSxes8UH

But that is 65mm OD which is a bit small but would probably do for now, I know they made a larger one around 78mm (original is 92mm) which is preferable as it's a very low revving engine compared to the petrol!

Edited January 21, 2021 by CurtisRider

[Tom Booth]

Minispares will probably be your best bet for either standard or uprated items.

[Topsy]

Does anyone here by any chance happen to have experience with MGAs?

Might be having a look at one next week because it seems that I'm a bit of a plonker with an old vehicle itch. 

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

 

[Wrayvon]

Time for another change with the MK.

Colour change time, removing all the yellow!

Looked very mad max without wheel arches

 ---

First time I have taken the scuttle off and I can now see all the wires for the dash.... I want to replace it but f**k tackling all that :/ 

[SamKidney]

Been a while. 

Business is busier than ever so I’ve had little time to progress on the EG. Was due to go to paint but I’ve found some other areas im not overly happy with so it’s been put back to have the areas in question addressed. 

Had a little Del Sol VTi I bought in for breaking, all but gone now, followed by a trip down south to collect a Civic VTI turbo to break too.

On Friday I finally found an engine for the Honda Beat I’ve had here since September too, which is all up and running again and almost ready to go back to the owner. 

Potentially moving units in the coming months to expand the business and take on more work, eagerly awaiting a confirmation email to say it’s going ahead before I had my notice in to the landlord where I am currently. 

Following a relatively successful first year trading as “KDN Honda Works”, I bought myself a little present today: 

DC2 Integra Type R number two! 
Won at Mathewsons Auction on Friday, the price I’ve paid has caused quite a stir amongst the owners club on Facebook but I’m happy non the less. 55k miles (mix of KMs/Miles) no rust but requires a re-spray. Looking forward to getting it back and cracking on. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by SamKidney

[MadManMike]

On 01/02/2021 at 8:38 AM, Wrayvon said:

Time for another change with the MK.

Colour change time, removing all the yellow!

Looked very mad max without wheel arches

So, after a couple of months of looking at MR2's (With no intention of buying until late summer probably, once we're in the house etc...), I saw this post and figured I could get something like this. Since it's not going to be a daily and I'll have a garage, I don't need the (albeit limited) practicality of an MR2.

I've had a good look around the usual places and have found a few options: Tiger Avon, MK Indy, Robin Hood and a couple of others. They seem to be half decent around the £5-6k mark, but I'm still pretty clueless about them.

Any tips / advice on what to look for?

Ideally I'd like to spend £5k, but if £7k gets you something way better, I'll add to the budget...

[Wrayvon]

14 hours ago, MadManMike said:

So, after a couple of months of looking at MR2's (With no intention of buying until late summer probably, once we're in the house etc...), I saw this post and figured I could get something like this. Since it's not going to be a daily and I'll have a garage, I don't need the (albeit limited) practicality of an MR2.

I've had a good look around the usual places and have found a few options: Tiger Avon, MK Indy, Robin Hood and a couple of others. They seem to be half decent around the £5-6k mark, but I'm still pretty clueless about them.

Any tips / advice on what to look for?

Ideally I'd like to spend £5k, but if £7k gets you something way better, I'll add to the budget...

Yessss you know it makes sense! 

Well winter is always a good time to buy one of these but people know this so generally they only come up for sale now if forced. Also covid probably means less for sale right now...

Nevertheless, first choice for me would be decide if you want bike or car engined. Then I guess decide if you want a bit of a project or a car that's almost perfect. Those 2 things should determine your budget mostly.

When I was buying mine, I was told to avoid Robin Hoods pretty much point blank but there are certainly some out there that have been built to a good standard so that's up to you I'd say. Probably the cheapest ones to buy though.

Finally the main thing to remember with these is no 2 cars will be the same (obviously), so make sure you have a good nosey around them as you don't want to be driving round in something that's been built by barry the bodger (sorry barry).

 

Feel free to hit me up with any questions anyway! 

 

[AdamR28]

You'll struggle to get something decent for 5k.

Be prepared to still get "hands on" at the top end of your budget, unless you fall very lucky.

Build quality trumps spec and brand (Robin Hood are known for being awful though).

Feel free to post up some links of cars for sale, happy to take a look - have had half a dozen kit cars over of various styles over the last 10 years, and worked on many more.

[MadManMike]

Cheers guys, I'll put links up as and when I find potentials then.

I'm happy to get hands on, as I'll have a garage when I buy it - the problem I had with the Eunos was a lack of space to work on it, it just sat outside rotting away... as long as it's mechanically fair, I'm happy to tidy stuff up. 

I'm assuming most of these kits rot less than an MX-5? 

What would you say is a sensible budget for a semi-project?

 

 

[AdamR28]

5-7k.

Rot not an issue.

[MadManMike]

This one caught my eye recently, as an example:

https://www.shpock.com/en-gb/i/X_eOSK3jLn0hHfl7/tiger-avon-kit-car