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Geometry: Old or New?


p_ruskin

Geometry: Old or New?  

41 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of geometry do you guys prefer?

    • New Style: 60+ BB Height
    • Older Style: 0-50 BB Height


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That could also be the 390mm chainstays talking though? :P

Are they 390mm on the stinger Mark? Christ.

I never really got how wheelbases were quoted on a horizontal drop out frame. I run 18:16 instead of the usual 18:15, so my axle is right forward in the drop outs, making the WB a good 10mm shorter than when marc ran 18:15 before me in this frame

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Yeah. Seem to remember that on the proto Ali had they were shorter, but there wasn't much tyre clearance. To get more tyre clearance, they just made it so the wheel had to sit further back in the dropout rather than changing yokes or something like that...

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I think distinguishing the results between mod and stock would have been wise.

Modern geometry is what's wrong with trials currently. This sport just isn't appealing the way people use high bb bikes. Before these came along, trials riding was pretty much what Rowan did - now it's what Damon does. Hence this whole street trials revolution - trials has become such a specialized sport that there is no room for the oldschool stuff in it anymore. Street-trials goes back to the roots of trials, hence it's popularity. I'm not saying this is a bad thing - on the contrary, now you have a choice of what style you want to take up. 10-15 years ago, you didn't because there were no trials bikes around which offered such ease of riding big obstacles.

I should have been more specific, i was talking about Stocks in general really as mods have always had slightly higher bb's and what people would class as high/low on mod and stock are very different. Sorry about that! I would say that a mod needs a higher bb to ride well at all (no less than 50/60mm really)

I had always rode mod/24 up until 2012 when i got a Limey4 with 70mm rise, since then i have had a Control 09 short (30mm) and an Inpulse r26 2010 (45mm) and both of the later i have prefered massivly - the inpulse in particular - and it just got me wondering what i am going to do when it cracks, i don't earn enough to be able to spend out on a kloud and asides from the Crewkerz freed which is a bit short for me, there is simply nothing similar i can replace it with.

I get that companies don't want to spend out on designing multiple frames for such a niche market, but most company produce more than one anyway and just make them really similar (Rockman for example). And as the poll shows the lower BB market is equally if not more popular than the comp style geo. market, so why companies have moved away from making them i don't know!

Of course I'm not saying they should produce them only like they used to as different people prefer different bikes, but if companies want to keep the trials market in general alive they need to cater to the needs of all types of riders! As the way things are going, trials is a dying sport and in my opinion, its not going to get any better if things keep going the way they are.

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...since then i have had a Control 09 short (30mm) and an Inpulse r26 2010 (45mm)...

And as the poll shows the lower BB market is equally if not more popular than the comp style geo. market, so why companies have moved away from making them i don't know!

Because higher BB frames sell better from new. When I was at TartyBikes, higher BB frames were generally more popular among people buying frames from new, and that's going to be a sale that companies are going to recognise because it's actually money going to them. Like you mentioned in your post, the last two lower BB frames you've had have been second hand. I get that part of that is going to be because there aren't as many on the market, but you also mentioned not wanting to stump up the funds for some of the newer frames on the market. It's sort of a catch 22 situation and I imagine that it's a similar situation to the one where people are trying to get "old Deng stuff" made again. The people asking for it tend to buy stuff second hand at really low prices, so consequently they don't really have much of an impact on the views of companies making things because they're not buying anything new, and the super low values of stuff on the second hand market mean that a lot of people don't want to pay the price for a new frame.

It seems like BB heights have kind of topped out now - Gilles was rolling on a Kloud for a bit last year and seemed to like it, a few other frames have started getting fractionally lower now - I imagine that there'll be a bit of upping/downing and it'll hit some kind of equilibrium sooner or later.

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went from an echo team 08 with around +35bb to +80bb and 1000wb on the onza genisis and just love the response and flickability from the geo.

The echo was +55 :P with 360CS ish.

Mods should be flicky though as they're not really good for anything else, and they never really feel like a "normal" bike. Stocks are nicer with a bit more stability I think, but I still can't ride them for shit.

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And as the poll shows the lower BB market is equally if not more popular than the comp style geo. market, so why companies have moved away from making them i don't know!

it's personal preference, there should be no argument hear! and even if it was only 37 people shouldn't be the decider of which is better

Because higher BB frames sell better from new

this is why the dont make as many low bb frames

Edited by jack dickinson
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I can totally see that if you're new to trials then high bb is the norm. I started in the 90s when everyone rode standard mtb frames with considerable bb drop and I saw bikes evolve (shorter chainstays, then seatless, then bb rising then wheelbase lengthening) till we came to modern bikes which hardly resemble bikes at all. I couldn't get used to high bb bikes, I found them more difficult to ride than low ones but I'm in the minority. I'm glad the streetier side of trials came back as I'd be pretty stuffed with the current range of frames out there (I'd have to go custom).

I totally prefer how low bb bikes ride but for static rear wheel moves and technical natural (extra ground clearance) and I can see high bb being the advantage.

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