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kevind

comp trials is dead?

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Reading through some threads here there is to me an interesting trend to riders wanting fun events instead of pure comps. Sheffield town centre charity do, over subscribed, We came down and had a great day. Tarty's new have fun ride what suits you type comp got a big thumbs up.

Comp entries on a downward spiral. Constant discussion of cheat dabs and various other unhappy rumblings.

Scottish trials from my point of view just goes on year on year at about the same level. I do try to make it more fun than compy and a ride round with your mates.

My points of view are:

1 Other than a very few core comp riders who have the facilities to get to world level the majority just want a great day out with mates and not break themselves for work

next day.

2 Cheat dabs are maybe out of hand, but like it or not they are part of any type of trials. The organisers are now making a big effort to layout sections so the cheat dabs are impossible. If you are there to compete then I don't have a problem with a dab up a step that gives you a one rather than a five. If you are a comp rider, then you go back home practice that kind of move/height then its doable next time. (bit naïve I know but that how we do it).

3 As with all sports I have ever been involved with there are the organisers, riders and the complainers. I have with age adjusted to the later and just have fun with the others.

4 I know that the comp scene in Europe has huge entries, so in my opinion its a British attitude that is killing the comp scene.

Solutions for discussion!!

1 More people stand up and organise, as then at meetings or setting out help and advice can be offered. I often change sections the morning of a comp on advice from riders.

2 The core comp riders should be excepted for what they want to achieve in there trials career, rather than being derided for what they and there families are having fun doing.

Of to work now to pay for diesel to get to Shipley next week. Lots more to say but we will be there to have fun and help where we can and say thanks for all that put in the hard work.

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One major rule change I'd make is that "one foot must be kept on a pedal at all times". If not its a 5. That would stop all the cheat dabbing straight away. Something fundamental needs to be done in the UK as the comp scene is on its arse

Edited by bing
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Need some street style comps for all the street bikes, something fun, not sure it would be easy to organize or if possible at all.

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One major rule change I'd make is that "one foot must be kept on a pedal at all times". If not its a 5.

That's a good one - simple, easy to police and would do the job. Like it (Y)

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Comps or no comps, the UK has the best street scene* in the world, and thats something to be proud of.

*TGS and street-street.

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UCI rules in all classes would help. Also if you go out of section its a 5. I went to Brimham rocks last year and there was a difficult section in the woods it was a step with a really short run up and the run up was down hill only way to do it would have been a hook. One of the kids who I'm not going to name and shame was told by his father to ride around the back of the section and put his bike through the flags using a dab when everyone else 5'd it trying to do it the intended way. It was utter BS.

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Sounds about right Brad, the going out of a section thing. That last comp that tykes did at dexx trials park was miles better, everything taped off so it couldn't happen. Think UCI rules in the lower classes won't work though, how many people in the lower classes use the bash or pedal to get up something because the don't have the power, technique or confidence to force it up the obstacle. Quite a lot is the answer, and I think UCI rules would make it too hard and force even more riders away. It's simple stuff that needs policing better, like strat dabbing and this hoisting the bike up shit with a sliding foot. Hence the one foot on the pedal rule. I personally think that it would do a whole heap of good to the comp scene as it would force riders to have a go at something, rather than not, keeping in line with the ethos of trials.

Edited by bing

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was told by his father to ride around the back of the section and put his bike through the flags using a dab when everyone else 5'd it trying to do it the intended way. It was utter BS.

That is simply knowing the rules and using that knowledge as an advantage over every bugger else that isn't switched on when walking the section. That's not BS - it's intelligence. And there is no shaming to be done for using it.

I did exactly the same at the last mototrial I rode in, and when the observer said it was a 5, I bit my tongue, went to the event steward at the end of the lap, appealed, and won. Outcome - a clean instead of a five.

So now when I am observing, so long as the flag isn't run over doing so, I deem the rider to be 'in' and move on.

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Then that makes you a dick :P Haha.

I so see your point though, it's always obvious what riders *should* do, it's just a shame people are so set on winning they forget this.

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At the end of the day I ride for fun, I get a kick out of doing things the intended way (although I also enjoy doing lines differently) it makes you feel that all of your practicing has paid off. Up until a few months ago I used to play on the bike 4/5 hours every single day. When you turn up to a competition and a someone just rides out of section and tech dabs it pees me right off.

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That is simply knowing the rules and using that knowledge as an advantage over every bugger else that isn't switched on when walking the section. That's not BS - it's intelligence. And there is no shaming to be done for using it.

I did exactly the same at the last mototrial I rode in, and when the observer said it was a 5, I bit my tongue, went to the event steward at the end of the lap, appealed, and won. Outcome - a clean instead of a five.

So now when I am observing, so long as the flag isn't run over doing so, I deem the rider to be 'in' and move on.

Moto trials is different. The bike can't be picked up and hoisted through a gate with one foot on the floor. And there's the no stop rule as well

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Then that makes you a dick :P Haha.

I so see your point though, it's always obvious what riders *should* do, it's just a shame people are so set on winning they forget this.

I think thats sometimes what puts people off from riding comps... You follow the rules, then get totally shot down for winning.

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Moto trials is different. The bike can't be picked up and hoisted through a gate with one foot on the floor. And there's the no stop rule as well

Yeah obviously. You'd of had to be there but the example I'm thinking of was similar. The options were

"murder clutch in 3rd gear with bike length plus 6 inches run up through a gap that would likely batter both pegs in the process"

or

"sneak through flag, ride over 12in rock to the right in 1st gear round the intended obstacle, hop turn, sneak through next flag gate"

In the example given at brimham, I'd of done the same as that kid, (regardless of whether that makes me a dick Adam) and then looked smug as fook at all the "eh?WTF? Why didn't I just do that? UCANTDOTHAT" premaddona pouting I'd left in my wake :dance:

ALSO a point I'd like to make taking the topic back to the OP:

if you notice I said 'now when I observe', I, along with my dad, are one of the comparative few who are rider/observers and there has always been a lack of willingness to give up a ride on a sunday to stand there, get hypothermia and be shouted at by abusive (sometimes national level, heavily sponsored) riders,

SO

how many of you who are pedal bike competitors are willing to put back into the sport in some way?

Going from expiriences I'd bet it would be 1, mabye 2 in 100 if lucky. Prove me wrong.

Edited by CC12345678910

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Words

You do know the acu rules of moto trials states there is an imaginary line in between each of the flags and if you go outside this it is a 5.

The observer was correct.

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Another twist in the comp tale scene in the UK is that the bike trial federation only found out today the rules from the UCI have been changed, so section lengths are now 2 minutes instead of 2.5 mins

Yeah obviously. You'd of had to be there but the example I'm thinking of was similar. The options were

"murder clutch in 3rd gear with bike length plus 6 inches run up through a gap that would likely batter both pegs in the process"

or

"sneak through flag, ride over 12in rock to the right in 1st gear round the intended obstacle, hop turn, sneak through next flag gate"

In the example given at brimham, I'd of done the same as that kid, (regardless of whether that makes me a dick Adam) and then looked smug as fook at all the "eh?WTF? Why didn't I just do that? UCANTDOTHAT" premaddona pouting I'd left in my wake :dance:

ALSO a point I'd like to make taking the topic back to the OP:

if you notice I said 'now when I observe', I, along with my dad, are one of the comparative few who are rider/observers and there has always been a lack of willingness to give up a ride on a sunday to stand there, get hypothermia and be shouted at by abusive (sometimes national level, heavily sponsored) riders,

SO

how many of you who are pedal bike competitors are willing to put back into the sport in some way?

Going from expiriences I'd bet it would be 1, mabye 2 in 100 if lucky. Prove me wrong.

I've observed at quite a few comps when they have been short, and yes I agree with you on this fact Edited by bing

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Worth bearing in mind that there's more to "putting back into the sport" than observing and traditional comps though, of course :)

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Interesting reply's. Great suggestion on the at least one foot on the pedal at all time. Would stop a lot of cheat dabs. But at world level its allowed!! Example of a new rider in any class that wants to progress but some steps are just to big for them so a dab rather than a five is ok in my book. The new ethos from us section markers is a lot more tape to stop it as well. As I stated the safety/cheat dab of one instead of five I have no problem with, but the past the gate and dabbing round the marker has to stop or like Shipley last year reversing the bike through a gate then riding back through it cause they couldn't do the gap. That is the only time I have complained in five years, not because of any result situation but the complete disregard for the rules was just beyond cheating. UCI rule maybe need to go down to inter but any lower then the younger riders will struggle a lot or we make the sections easier, which has been discussed as one reason for the fall off in riders. I agree with the city centre trials would be a huge step forward in growing the sport, but from first hand knowledge it is very very time consuming and costs a lot more than a trial in a field. I would love to do a city centre trial, but I cant give any more time or money than I already do and know for a fact that very few if anybody would stand up and help. I am sure plenty would love to ride and probably complain but as stated they don't bother me any more. Anybody want to sponsor a city centre trial, I am really cheap!!

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We should run comps like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byAGwKYTPP4

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So we just need about £30k from a massive company, easy!

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Anyone got Macaskill on speed dial?

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Worth bearing in mind that there's more to "putting back into the sport" than observing and traditional comps though, of course :)

I agree, I give up so much of my time when I should be working to keep this place tidy :P . Been slacking recently of course, I can see why Mark sacked it off!

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When I first started trials riding I was paying for it with my £20 a week paper ground - lets be honest guys thats a lot of saving to buy a bike and then from then on its pretty much inner tube money....

Paying for insurance and comp fees was1 thing - but getting there and back was another. Whereas I could buy a kids train ticket and go to most city rides in the country (not up North of course) for £15. Sweet as a nut - good people - great riding - cheap and easy.

Comp scene was serious, people wore lycra and most spots were in the ass end of no-where.

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accessibility is the trickiest part of the comp scene for me. i don't care where i place, having the competition going on served to push me to try harder and that alone was enough of a reason to want to ride comps. i haven't witnessed or been scorned by the super techy dabbing that rages mr chandler. but i recon our lass would 5 you into next week if she saw that shit in her sections.

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I think thats sometimes what puts people off from riding comps... You follow the rules, then get totally shot down for winning.

That's an overly-simplified and in this case incorrect way of putting it. Someone like Jack Carthy follows the rules, but did he get "shot down for winning"? No. There are countless examples of that. It's the same as any 'sport' where the methods people use to win will commented on. To use a totally random example, in football when teams like Barcelona win by playing really intricate passing moves and creating a load of goal-scoring opportunities people are into it, but when a middle-to-low-end Premier League team nicks a goal then 'parks the bus' people don't like it. Both are "following the rules", but winning in totally different ways, and people watching are naturally going to form an opinion on it.

If someone has stuck with trials long enough to consider going to a comp, and is willing to put the time and effort in to get to a comp, I doubt that someone saying on a forum (without anyone ever really giving specific examples anyway) that they don't like the fact they choose to pirouette through gates is going to really "put them off", is it?

From my own experience, the lack of venues that were near to where I lived and a total lack of information on what sections were actually like to ride were the things that put me off riding comps at first. When people phoned up TartyBikes and asked about comps they were the only two issues people brought up too - no-one ever mentioned being called out for dabbing through sections.

How many people even win using those kinds of tactics these days? From the national-level comps I've been to and the World-level comps I've watched the riders doing the worst examples of strategic dabbing haven't really been competing for wins. It's almost like competing with a deliberately negative approach might hinder your performance in the long run - quelle surprise.

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So we just need about £30k from a massive company, easy!

A good comp with all the rules we'd like to see would cost 60k dollars to organize?

What if hypothetically someone could afford that a couple times a year just for the hell of it? Would it be possible to organize something really good with that money?

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