BJ. Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) This might be a little bit of a long shot, but I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could give me a little point in the right direction before I shell out to a solicitor. Any way here's the scenario I'm in. About 2/3 months ago I had my Inspired Fourplay up for sale on a Facebook trials group. I had a little bit of interest in the bike but nobody was offering the money I'd have liked for the bike. I was approached buy a guy via direct message asking if I'd consider swapping my bike for a 1997 Montesa Cota Motorcycle. The guy seemed genuine and knew a lot about the bike and agreed to meet me at Weatherby Service Station on the A1 which was about an hours drive from both of us. When I got to the meeting point I had a chat with the guy who told me he'd had the bike for a number of months and came by it after doing some electrical work for his friend, he basically said his friend didn't have the cash after the job was complete and instead give him to motorbike to settle the debt. I was a bit dubious about this but the guy seemed really genuine and knew his stuff so I went ahead and did the swap. The motorbike was great and ran spot on and I'd used it up until last week when I had to put it up for sale as I'm saving for a deposit for my first house. Again it was up forsale on the same Facebook page as the inspired and a guy who owns a motorbike shop in Yorkshire messaged me saying he was in the area buying a bike and would like to buy my bike. We agreed a fee of £900 and the next day he turned up as agreed, he checked the bike over and had a ride around the estate and came bike complementing how great the bike was for its age, he checked the bike again and looked for the frame number and informed me he needed that for his records. The frame number was covered by a piece of red vinyl sticker when I got it for which I presume to be just for aesthetic purposes as there was no number board on the bike when I got it. The guy pushed against the sticker and said he could see the frame number was there and went on to sign a receipt and load the bike into his van. He parted with his cash and drove away. 7 hours later the guy called me while I was out having a family meal screaming down the phone that is sold him a stolen bike and saying that I'd ground the frame number off, and demanded that I give him his £900 back immediately or he would call the police. I was in quite of bit of shock and said to the guy I will pay you a full refund but it would be on my Credit Card the resin being if It was a stolen bike I could claim for my money through my credit card insurance. The guy was very rude and refused the money and said I was to pay him cash and pay him a days wage as well as fuel money for him to deliver the bike back to me. My mother wanted to speak with the guy as he was screaming down the phone and to be perfectly honest I couldn't get a word in sideways. My mother tried to talk a bit of sense into him and educated him on how I'd came by the bike and that he was to phone the police and report that he thought the bike was stolen to which he replied you have a family discussion and I'll call back. Anyway I spoke to my family about what had happened and they all said not to give him the cash back as he could have ground the numbers off himself which I also believe could have happened and he was happy that the numbers were there before taking the bike. Anyway a letter arrived a couple of days after saying I have 14 days to pay him the money back in cash or he would take me to the small claims court. I just want to know where either of us stands. I have all the messages and photos from the guy I got the bike from as well as a phone number if that makes any difference. All help appreciated. Edited July 16, 2015 by BJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*gentlydoesit Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Go to court! You've offered a refund already, do it there and he can't refuse! Without a serial number isn't proof that it's stolen fyi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewEH1 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Personally I would do nothing. Does he know where you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJ. Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Personally I would do nothing. Does he know where you live? Yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMatt Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Looks like its time to hurry up and move BJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Does the receipt you have mention the frame number? He's obviously playing silly buggers. With him having specifically checked your bike had a frame number, I'd guess he has another bike of the same model that has been stolen and the frame number ground off, then he's swapped the frames over... 7 hours is probably about the right amount of time to do this, too. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/- probably the best place to call. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Why move? He's done nothing wrong. Tell the guy to go f**k himself. Private sales are sold as seem, no warranty implied. Serial number being missing is dodgy, but doesn't mean it's definitely stolen. You offered him a refund via credit card, if he declined that then it's his own fault. I'd go to court, the guy is clearly a willy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJ. Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 This is what I received, the close up photo shows clearly where a logo was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMike Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 To be fair, that does look like it was ground down before the sticker was applied and you probably have sold him a stolen bike. In which case, I'm not sure where you stand. I would offer him the credit card refund again, but there's no ground for covering fuel / wages, that's a load of bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJ. Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 To be fair, that does look like it was ground down before the sticker was applied and you probably have sold him a stolen bike. In which case, I'm not sure where you stand. I would offer him the credit card refund again, but there's no ground for covering fuel / wages, that's a load of bullshit. There's nothing to say he hasn't peeled the sticker back and ground it then stuck the sticker back and then scraped it off. To be perfectly honest when I saw the photo I would have said it was already done before I got the bike, but the guy checked the number before taking the bike and said they were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 So that red sticker isn't a normal factory graphic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJ. Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) So that red sticker isn't a normal factory graphic?Not that I'm aware. Edit: the photo is before i got the bike Edited July 16, 2015 by BJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 So that red sticker isn't a normal factory graphic? It would be unusual for a factory graphic to be put over the frame number, surely?My guess is the bike was already stolen and the number ground off, and the guy is one of those idiots who can't discuss a problem in a civil manner. If I was you I'd find the cash and give it back, more trouble than it's worth otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR28 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 It would be unusual for a factory graphic to be put over the frame number, surely? True! Just seems fishy he specifically checked for a frame number and made a big deal of it. Unless theft of these bikes is fairly common and removing the frame number is a regular thing in such an instance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*gentlydoesit Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 In order to take legal action he would first have to prove that the bike was indeed stolen, which without the serial number is unlikely. there is an X ray technique to read it I believe but not available to the general public. If he had evidence to the fact it would be a criminal not civil suit.. so I'd do fukall until it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Harrison Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 In order to take legal action he would first have to prove that the bike was indeed stolen, which without the serial number is unlikely. there is an X ray technique to read it I believe but not available to the general public. If he had evidence to the fact it would be a criminal not civil suit.. so I'd do fukall until it is. Fair point actually, and he did have the opportunity to inspect it before making the purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJ. Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 It's just one big headache. I've taken the 'do f**k all' route about it. I've offered his money once and now I'm not prepared to give him anything. I would just like to know who people think the court will be in favor of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*gentlydoesit Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 IF it got there then he'd have sufficient evidence to bring a case.. then in all likelihood it'd be ruled in his favour, you'd reimburse him, not sure on court costs as you already offered a refund but he didn't accept Making the case pointless in the first place! But that's a heavy IF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shercofray Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 With a CCJ against your name this will impact your credit rating which won't be great for mortgages for said house you sold the bike for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndeeeMK2 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Ignore the letters you are getting sent because it will cost him more to take actions on you through Small claims court. You offered him the coin back what more does he want a hand written appology? Edited July 16, 2015 by AndeeeMK2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 After evicting my tenant, removing all his possessions from my property and leaving everything on the street to soak in the rain, he threatened me with court action. My bum hole was pinching that day I tell you. Nothing ever came of it though. You'll be reet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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