Al_Fel

Lost ancient high technology. Do you believe?

97 posts in this topic

That's fine; you think it's far fetched, I don't think it's far fetched.

The insides could be core drilled, rough chiselled then polished, that would be the slow bit of the job and would take a lot of time and skill, I'm not denying that.  Working in teams, one gang of workers (foreman and 400 mooks) roughs out the outside with wedges, another gang smoothes the outside with planes then they move onto other objects whilst the small team of skilled workers come in to cut out the inside over a period of a couple of months.

Naturally I am generally inclined to disregard these videos as people trying to make money by preaching their message to other people on a public forum. They're charging people thousands of dollars to go on a tour and look at something (that would normally probably cost them three eggs and a pebble to access) and spout their hypothetical questions as statement without logically looking for an actual rational explanation.

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2 minutes ago, forteh said:

That's fine; you think it's far fetched, I don't think it's far fetched.

The insides could be core drilled, rough chiselled then polished, that would be the slow bit of the job and would take a lot of time and skill, I'm not denying that.  Working in teams, one gang of workers (foreman and 400 mooks) roughs out the outside with wedges, another gang smoothes the outside with planes then they move onto other objects whilst the small team of skilled workers come in to cut out the inside over a period of a couple of months.

Naturally I am generally inclined to disregard these videos as people trying to make money by preaching their message to other people on a public forum. They're charging people thousands of dollars to go on a tour and look at something (that would normally probably cost them three eggs and a pebble to access) and spout their hypothetical questions as statement without logically looking for an actual rational explanation.

People are always going to try and make money out of anything they can. I'm not saying I've got the answers and I'm not agreeing with everything they are saying. I'm looking at these amazing structures and wondering. I'm questioning the theory that these things were produced with simple tools over thousands of hours work.

I find this subject very interesting and I can't help but think there's a lot more to it than we think.

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Fair play to the Inca people for shifting them rocks up that mountain...

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I'm probably talking to myself about now but I wonder what the repetitive strain injuries were like in ancient egypt? Keeping everyone fed must have been a massive task as well. I wonder how many tons of copper was needed to make all the tools? There must have been an industrial scale of tool making. It's crazy how all these massive granite blocks have been spread about the place like rubble as well. A lot of effort must have went into destroying them and moving them about the place so much.

From the video of the demonstration of them cutting that stone it took them about an hour to cut 4mm deep over about 1 meter distance. Anyone fancy doing some calculations as to how long it would take to make a box?

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Only me again. Just wondering how someone could bash these shapes out without breaking the things.

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What a muppet, it was turned on a lathe which could only be powered by electricity....

What is with his insistence that machine tools had to be used to create these items?

edit: that folded bowl thing wasn't machined at all it's been ground into that shape. Symmetry like that is easy to achieve, make a tooling jig and index the piece 4 times.

Edited by forteh
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16 hours ago, forteh said:

What a muppet, it was turned on a lathe which could only be powered by electricity....

What is with his insistence that machine tools had to be used to create these items?

edit: that folded bowl thing wasn't machined at all it's been ground into that shape. Symmetry like that is easy to achieve, make a tooling jig and index the piece 4 times.

I agree he does push his idea of them having power tools. But if you forget all that you have to admit their skills, tools and methods used exceed what the historians think?

I think he makes good points about the work being older then we believe. Would it be so out there to imagine that 12000 years ago there was a different group of people that made a lot of this stuff, something catastrophic happened to them and the eqyptains came along and took over what was left?

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44 minutes ago, Al_Fel said:

you have to admit their skills, tools and methods used exceed what the historians think?

No not really :lol:

44 minutes ago, Al_Fel said:

I think he makes good points about the work being older then we believe. Would it be so out there to imagine that 12000 years ago there was a different group of people that made a lot of this stuff, something catastrophic happened to them and the eqyptains came along and took over what was left?

Yes, yes it would be, because there is simply no evidence to suggest it happened that way.

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8 hours ago, manuel said:

No not really :lol:

Yes, yes it would be, because there is simply no evidence to suggest it happened that way.

There's no evidence the Egyptians built the pyramids. Where's the evidence they carved the giant granite boxes?

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17 minutes ago, Al_Fel said:

There's no evidence the Egyptians built the pyramids. Where's the evidence they carved the giant granite boxes?

First of all, some random bloke walking around vlogging and saying "woah mate, these stones look weird I cant even imagine how these are built!!!!" while citing highly reasonable and accurate sources ("some people told me that...") is not something I would take seriously.

Yeah, it would be great to take some mushrooms/psychedelic of your choice (actually... cheers for the idea) but if I want to actually learn facts how something works or in this case these pyramids being built, I would go to a university or look for proper papers.

I get it, a 15 page black and white paper with tons of data written by a historian/engineer for other historians/engineers is not as interesting as some youtube video, but chances are it is more correct.

If I were you I would go to uni of Liverpool, as they have Egyptology department, and ask for some information or some guidance for books/papers! That place should be full of people who devoting their life for this very matter and qualified and experienced in the field.

Also for most of the questions you are asking chances are there are answers out there, but probably youtube is not the best place to find it.

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1 hour ago, Al_Fel said:

There's no evidence the Egyptians built the pyramids. Where's the evidence they carved the giant granite boxes?

Ok that comment didn't come across how I would have liked it to.

I'm feeling a lot of aggression, patronising and disdain towards me as well.

Is it so wrong to question something that can't be proven? I'm trying to inspire people to look at something amazing and offer up their own take on it. Obviously none of us are historians or scientists in the the field ancient Egypt etc.

I'm not one for reading text books or studying things. I'm more visual and practical in how I learn. I'm always learning and it's not something I ever intend to stop doing.

I appreciate everyone's input into this thread and I know I'm probably coming across as some kind of ignorant, gullible fool for asking these questions and being inspired by someone who isn't accepting the "mainstream" way of thinking. I'm sorry if I'm annoying anyone but is it so wrong to question thing's?

If you think you can piece together all of history from what evidence has been found so far then I think you are wrong. Not everything that happens leaves evidence! You can only build up an idea and have theories on what there is to go from.

Sorry again for being that annoying person that's causing frustation. But I'm not sorry for asking questions.

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15 hours ago, Al_Fel said:

There's no evidence the Egyptians built the pyramids. Where's the evidence they carved the giant granite boxes?

But there kind of is (I think). Fairly sure the timelines of 'known history' (i.e. as it's taught in schools etc.) is well documented enough to be 'proven' in the order that we understand it. Hieroglyphs (sp?) are an Egyptian thing and they can be used to tell the story of the various part of their history, their leaders, those who have been laid to rest in the pyramids etc. etc. Giant granite sarcophagusses within those tombs again relate to the same era with hieroglyphs telling the stories. What there isn't evidence of is a group of highly intelligent toolmakers and engineers with access to far more advanced tools ad materials existing long before the Egyptians doing it all for them.

I'm sure there are lots of things that have been lost over the years that we aren't aware of and of which no evidence remains (water powered lathe/tools maybe? I dunno) but the actual evidence only really points to what we know (or at least what we think we know).

You say "not everything that happens leaves evidence" but when you're talking about what allowed people to make things from solid rock the only tools more advanced that the copper (or whatever) tools that we think they used would have to be stronger and harder than the copper ones and hence would leave evidence somewhere in the area. As far as I'm aware that's simply not the case so we have to work on what we know and can prove.

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6 minutes ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said:

But there kind of is (I think)

That says a lot to me. What we get taught in high school is a stripped down easy to understand version of certain things. That's why you have higher education to go into much more detail. Maybe the evidence is out there or has been found and just hasn't been analyzed properly?

Speaking of giant lathes... That to my uneducated self looks like those pillars were turned on giant lathes. The skulls on that dudes hat are impressive too. I'm not saying its ancient technology I'm just blown away with what's out there all around the world.

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57 minutes ago, Al_Fel said:

That says a lot to me. What we get taught in high school is a stripped down easy to understand version of certain things. That's why you have higher education to go into much more detail. Maybe the evidence is out there or has been found and just hasn't been analyzed properly?

It's almost like there should be an area of archaeology which concentrates purely on that part of history. You could call it something like Egyptology... ;)

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I love how that video talks about things being done on a lathe then shows a column with features that couldn’t be done on a lathe.

 

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1 hour ago, manuel said:

I love how that video talks about things being done on a lathe then shows a column with features that couldn’t be done on a lathe.

 

2:41 into the video? I noticed that myself. So you don't think any of the others were done on a lathe?

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“Lathe” is a bit leading - the guy is also banging on about advanced tooling too which seems a bit silly, it certainly appears that some have been turned, but there are other ways to skin a cat. My guess would be there has been actual science conducted on these things, and my second guess would be if anyone had discovered anything other than period tools were used to make them it would have been big news? I’m comfortable that the skills the people who made all these things were amazing, but completely within the bounds of technology posessed at the time.

 

The bits about not being able to stick a twig in a gap are just lolz. 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, manuel said:

“Lathe” is a bit leading - the guy is also banging on about advanced tooling too which seems a bit silly, it certainly appears that some have been turned, but there are other ways to skin a cat. My guess would be there has been actual science conducted on these things, and my second guess would be if anyone had discovered anything other than period tools were used to make them it would have been big news? I’m comfortable that the skills the people who made all these things were amazing, but completely within the bounds of technology posessed at the time.

 

The bits about not being able to stick a twig in a gap are just lolz. 

 

 

 

I'm not saying I agree with everything these people are saying. You've got to have a bullshit buffer with these videos.

I look at them hollow skulls and I personally can't see how you could do that with a chisel. I think the point he's trying to make about not being able to get his 3mm twig in the gap is that the tool to make the cut out would have to be smaller than 3mm. That's a tiny chisel and a lot of skill to be able to do that.

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Yeah I get that. But it’s soapstone no? Completely possible for a skilled craftsman to work into great detail? 

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So is it aliens? I've Stopped catching up sorry guys

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14 hours ago, manuel said:

Yeah I get that. But it’s soapstone no? Completely possible for a skilled craftsman to work into great detail? 

To be honest I didn't know what type of stone it was haha. I'm just clutching at straws to try and convince someone to agree with me. It's obviously not going to happen. I've tried my best anyway.

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22 hours ago, Davetrials said:

So is it aliens? I've Stopped catching up sorry guys

No. 

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