Archie H Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 I've always gone with Pro4's over i9 based on the price and the fact that there isn't really must difference besides a few cosmetics. However, if this system comes out in a SS option that is strong enough for trials then a change may be in order, despite the huge price. 690 engagement points?!?! https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-industry-nines-690-point-engagement-hydra-hubs.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 But only one pawl (two teeth) effectively engaging at any one time? I know they say the flex in the system means that's not quite the case but... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 The older one looks more dependable and has plenty of engagements. The new one is just over the top, in my opinion. And is the extra cost justifiable, over competitors such as Hope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoofty Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) The Hydras just went on sale today here in the States for $435 USD. I'd love to try one too, but I don't need a new rear wheel at the moment. The price is on par with Profile or Chris King and some other high end hubs, but Hope definitely still has the price advantage. The Hydra does come in a bolt on single speed version. I couldn't be happier with my I9 torch single speeds so a Hydra would be nice to try out. Edited February 12, 2019 by Swoofty updated info 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie H Posted February 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 If you could get a really good chain tension and then that hub it must feel amazing just to have that almost instant engagement. 2 hours ago, monkeyseemonkeydo said: But only one pawl (two teeth) effectively engaging at any one time? I know they say the flex in the system means that's not quit the case but... Yeah, that is maybe a concern, also the ratchet ring bit doesn’t have very sizeable teeth so I’m not sure how much torque they can be put under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyT Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 690?! HOly fuuuuuuuurrrrrrr... Aside for more noise for the spectator I can't feel the need for anything over 72 ep...but people need to sell NEW FANCY hubs ! Keep that money train rollin. 12- 24 was huge, 24- 48 was biiiig, then 72 was king (no pun intented...or...) now we have 108, 144, 690, 303209999 ep. more the merrier, i9 hubs look great. Still none as instant as the silent clutch I ran on my koxx cheat code #deathtrap #goodbyeteeth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 @Ali C, are you still running I9 hubs? how do you rate compared to Hope in terms of engagement reliability? Would you / will you be running one of these hubs on the trially? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 "It utilizes the inherent flex in the drive system to transfer the torque and ensure that a single pawl will never take the entire load. This is where Industry Nine claim that their system has an advantage over a traditional pawl system that can’t limit that flex - they say it limits and minimizes wear and tear on the system and provides a more consistent ride." That's where they lost me a bit. They mention earlier in the copy that their hub can flex enough to take the load over up to 4 pawls simultaneously which sounds like it must be quite a lot of flex. I don't really get how that is limiting/reducing the flex compared to, say, a Pro 4? If my Hopes died fully I'd been thinking of going for some Torch hubs but it looks like that dream is over if they're discontinued in lieu of these. Not sure how much I'd really trust them long term with a ratchet that's so shallow, and that's a reasonable chunk of cash for a hub. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie H Posted February 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 54 minutes ago, Mark W said: "It utilizes the inherent flex in the drive system to transfer the torque and ensure that a single pawl will never take the entire load. This is where Industry Nine claim that their system has an advantage over a traditional pawl system that can’t limit that flex - they say it limits and minimizes wear and tear on the system and provides a more consistent ride." That's where they lost me a bit. They mention earlier in the copy that their hub can flex enough to take the load over up to 4 pawls simultaneously which sounds like it must be quite a lot of flex. I don't really get how that is limiting/reducing the flex compared to, say, a Pro 4? If my Hopes died fully I'd been thinking of going for some Torch hubs but it looks like that dream is over if they're discontinued in lieu of these. Not sure how much I'd really trust them long term with a ratchet that's so shallow, and that's a reasonable chunk of cash for a hub. I think the idea is, with more, smaller ratchet points, the flex will be less as they will flex and engage quicker than in a larger ratchet design which would require longer travel distance before the ‘bite’. Same thinking with having all ratchets offset instead or in pairs or triplets, one will engage and that will be the starting point for another 3 or so to flex and engage. I think it’s a good idea as it is taking advantage of the inevitable flex that is usually bad but is being put to use on this system. Although, as you said, for high torque loads I wonder will it jump and skip. Would definitely be interesting to hear someone riding trials with them to give a bit of an insight. If only there were cheaper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyseemonkeydo Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 There's so little material contact: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 As i assume we're all looking at this from a trials perspective, obviously it's not aimed at what we do and the pressures we put through hubs compared to say, going up hill with a 32th front cog and a 46 tooth rear cog. lets assume its been well tested for use on the mtbs....but in terms of your question archie, i wouldn't wanna risk riding trials on this with 1 pawl engaging at a time. Even with flex. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 6 hours ago, ben_travis said: @Ali C, are you still running I9 hubs? how do you rate compared to Hope in terms of engagement reliability? Would you / will you be running one of these hubs on the trially? I've found my Torch hubs to be perfect! Probably on par reliability wise as my Hopes and a good chunk lighter! I did send I9 a proposal to ride their hubs, I would rather they kept the current engagement as an option but if these hubs prove to be anywhere near as reliable as my current ones then I'm ok with it...IF! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie H Posted February 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ali C said: I've found my Torch hubs to be perfect! Probably on par reliability wise as my Hopes and a good chunk lighter! I did send I9 a proposal to ride their hubs, I would rather they kept the current engagement as an option but if these hubs prove to be anywhere near as reliable as my current ones then I'm ok with it...IF! Hopefully they will be nice and send you some. Be interesting to know what’s it’s like and see if it is worth the enormous price difference. 26 minutes ago, ben_travis said: As i assume we're all looking at this from a trials perspective, obviously it's not aimed at what we do and the pressures we put through hubs compared to say, going up hill with a 32th front cog and a 46 tooth rear cog. lets assume its been well tested for use on the mtbs....but in terms of your question archie, i wouldn't wanna risk riding trials on this with 1 pawl engaging at a time. Even with flex. I think that’s how it’s looking at the moment. After all, Pro 4’s are pretty flipping good at what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoofty Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 I emailed I9 yesterday and asked them about the suitability of the Hydra for trials use and if using it for trials would void the warranty and this was their response, "I have zero trials skills unfortunately but if I did I would absolutely use our hubs. We do have a few trials riders using our hubs and no it wouldn't void the warranty." I imagine they got a lot of emails yesterday, but that's all the response I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_travis Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) Once you've applied to the bank to remortgage your house, then paid for the hubs, then received the hubs, and then enjoyed their beauty before buildng them into wheels, and finally taken them out for a ride. Just you make sure, before that first gap to a hand rail, that you've got that email saved in your inbox... /cynicaloldman Edited February 15, 2019 by ben_travis 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 My question would be, if it was to skip, does the next pawl engage? If it did, then the movement of the cranks isn't going to be drastic enough for you to slip a pedal and give yourself a shin'r. Unlike Kings, when if it skips its like getting to the top of a set of stairs and expecting another step. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark W Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 Skipping under high load tends to make pawls hate life too - with how fine that ratchet is I'd be concerned if the tips of the pawls started getting chipped or squared off a bit. Having said that though, we all saw what the dude from I9 said about using it for trials so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ In fairness to him the Torch hubs do seem to have held up well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikee Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 Would a smaller ratchet effectively wear out quicker? Surely tolerances will be tighter, because of how small it is and with less surface area in contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie H Posted February 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 I assume so, unless they have used some super metal then the smaller surface area is probably going to wear out quicker. Although, goes back to their thing about pawl flex so maybe when a few engage it equals out to the same (or more) surface area than another hub. As for if it did skip, my money would be on total destruction of both shins and teeth. There's no way it could engage again with such a small contact area. Although, I could be (and often am) very wrong. What does their warranty cover? If you ride it a few times and discover the pawls are wearing, can you get a new hub for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali C Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 I think the 101 model would probably be of more interest to us, fewer engagement points but should be pretty reliable if the Torch is anything to go by and it has the bonus of being cheaper too! They don't show it as a single speed option but I'd like to think the cassette body would swap over or they'd at least be able to put something together if asked as they're still a small company. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Dark Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 I’ll let you guys know how I get on with it 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dk2 Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Look really sweet...waiting for a review of it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoofty Posted March 6, 2019 Report Share Posted March 6, 2019 Which axle version is that? Is it 10mm bolt on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbertlemon102 Posted March 7, 2019 Report Share Posted March 7, 2019 15 hours ago, Swoofty said: Which axle version is that? Is it 10mm bolt on? alex rides a jealousy, so id guess its the 12mm bolt through... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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