Covid19

[Ali C]

2 hours ago, manuel said:

The way I look at it... 

Without being in the field, it’s hard to pick apart what is effective and what isn’t - it takes incredibly well designed and executed studies to find out. 
 

But

if there were drugs that were readily available and were effective enough to stop us needing economy crippling lockdowns - we would be using them. It would surely take a conspiracy on a global scale involving governments, scientists, drug companies etc for that not to be the case? There are too many vaccines in play from too many different places and too many people dying in too many different countries. 
 

I find it hilarious that the uk is now basically banned from going abroad, or going out, or seeing other people. The government has been truly pathetic in its handling and is now just a total embarrassment. If the vaccine fixes this I’ll be genuinely surprised. But it seems the best shot. 

The issue is the government are both dodgy in having invested interest in certain companies involving COVID (ppe contracts etc) AND having to listen to the WHO which aren’t exactly that great.

 

 The reason why these scientists are getting silenced is because places like YouTube, Facebook and Twitter have protect people and not allow misinformation to be spread...currently the WHO are a few months behind the latest findings...either because they’re crap or overly cautious which means even if these scientists are correct it’s not what the WHO are currently agreeing with so it’s classed as misinformation and silenced.

 

Jane says that Ivermectin has been successful in peer verified hospital tests and has been rolled out into legitimate treatment plans in certain countries (I forget the name of the plans, “ivec” or “iban” or something like that). It just seems first world countries either have way more corrupt governments willing to sacrifice people to give their pals businesses lucrative contracts or have to be seen to be doing the right thing by following WHO guidelines...neither of which is ideal for us.

 

 

[Andy7]

These vaccines are what most people fear because of the uncertain long term side effects it may cause that have not been years in testing if that makes sense, there is a lot of talk at work people not agreeing to take the vaccine that the UK are handing out at the moment because there is no long term testing.

[monkeyseemonkeydo]

Unfortunately the knock on of that is that it gives a voice to the old school anti-vaxxers who won't innoculate their kids against polio because it'll give them AIDS  or whatever.

[Ali C]

I’m certainly not taking any vaccine that doesn’t have solid history.

 

Jane has ordered some Ivermectin from abroad, whether it’ll clear customs we’ll have to see

[MadManMike]

Another "no vaccine thx" here...

They take 10-15 years to develop and the argument that all the scientists in the world have been working on it isn't valid in my eyes - it's not number of people, it's length of time. There hasn't been long term trials like there should be, so I'll wait until it's proven and established.

[forteh]

Another no vaccine here as well, I'll rely on my immune system to do the work if need be, we've all been dosing massively on vitamin D; according to the wife there appears to be a trend of the worse sufferers to be vitamin D deficient.  Obviously continue taking sensible precautions, masking up in public etc and we don't really socialise really so it's not a massive upset; infact this will be first year that the two older kids will be with us for christmas as they normally go off to their dads about 10am christmas morning.  He's having them for new year now so our 'cancelled christmas' is actually more family than we normally have

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the new mutated strain react to the current vaccine?

[Ali C]

The virus has actually muted a few times, it’s not that unusual for it to do that... the government are leaning heavily on this story though to try and get people to listen to them. Without a scare tactic the public would probably just ignore instructions and carry on with Christmas as usual, it takes something more serious to make people skip their Christmas traditions and playing on the mutation story (which isn’t necessarily false) is a good way to get people to pay attention.

 

whether it’s a good or bad thing for the government to do is up for debate but the mutation isn’t perhaps as serious as they’re making out (yet).

[manuel]

19 hours ago, Ali C said:

The issue is the government are both dodgy in having invested interest in certain companies involving COVID (ppe contracts etc) AND having to listen to the WHO which aren’t exactly that great.

 

 The reason why these scientists are getting silenced is because places like YouTube, Facebook and Twitter have protect people and not allow misinformation to be spread...currently the WHO are a few months behind the latest findings...either because they’re crap or overly cautious which means even if these scientists are correct it’s not what the WHO are currently agreeing with so it’s classed as misinformation and silenced.

 

Jane says that Ivermectin has been successful in peer verified hospital tests and has been rolled out into legitimate treatment plans in certain countries (I forget the name of the plans, “ivec” or “iban” or something like that). It just seems first world countries either have way more corrupt governments willing to sacrifice people to give their pals businesses lucrative contracts or have to be seen to be doing the right thing by following WHO guidelines...neither of which is ideal for us.

 

 

WARNING: I’m shit with language and I’m terrible at talking/writing about my point of view without appearing a total dick. (On the internet’s doubly so) I’m not trying to be, I like the discussion. I should probably add this to my signature if someone can come up with a more snappy disclaimer.

 

I agree the governments shady contracts aren’t exactly inspiring confidence but if you look at vaccine purchasing - they’ve basically ordered loads of all of them. If an off the shelf drug worked well enough on its own then they would have been better off making some shady deals with contracts for supply of that drug? 
 

I just don’t see all the governments of Europe basically ordering millions of doses of vaccine from multiple sources for some kind of self serving purpose mainly monetary gain. Deliberately suppressing legitimate science that would potentially save their countries billions and return life a bit more back to normal. 
 

A bit of light googling (and I admit I’ve only done light googling) on that drug - gives you an article in nature https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02958-2 looks like it was updated in December 

which appears to say that treatment is a meh don’t really know but because it’s an off the shelf job it’s been used as a bit of a miracle cure. This sounds to me more like a conspiracy theory / drug company push like situation. 
If there are some proper papers on it anyone knows I would really like to read them (I’m bored at home and now I’m interested)

 

to all those saying no thnx to a vaccine dose - I don’t really get it. Yes it was developed quickly, but it’s put through the same rigours to gain approval and the way it works is very different to other vaccines. My logic goes - you have a small chance of dying from COVID. You have a pretty minuscule chance of dying from the vaccine. If things continue you’ve got a pretty good chance of catching COVID, so I’m pretty happy that my odds of survival are higher with it than without it. Low take up is going to be a massive issue.

[that NBR dude]

My only real issue with the vaccine right now is the long term affects.

While I'm no vaccine developing expert, I'd have assumed (perhaps wrongly I admit) that these things are tested over long(er) periods to ascertain any adverse affects down the line, especially when as you say this is something completely new and never tried before. As I say I could be completely wrong on this and it has all followed the exact same route as any other, but I think a lot of the publics reticence is this all feels very "political"... 

  PS I think you're better with the language than you think you are

[MadManMike]

1 hour ago, manuel said:

to all those saying no thnx to a vaccine dose - I don’t really get it. Yes it was developed quickly, but it’s put through the same rigours to gain approval and the way it works is very different to other vaccines. My logic goes - you have a small chance of dying from COVID. You have a pretty minuscule chance of dying from the vaccine. If things continue you’ve got a pretty good chance of catching COVID, so I’m pretty happy that my odds of survival are higher with it than without it. Low take up is going to be a massive issue.

I get your point and it's an opinion shared by many. For me, I had Covid back in April and it made me a feel a bit off for 5 days, I had one day off sick purely because I couldn't focus on work, I wasn't bed ridden. Based on that, I don't really feel like I need the vaccine (Especially as I'll now have some degree of immunity to it should I get hit again).

My parents and grandparent would be much harder hit, so if they want the vaccine I wouldn't tell them not to. I'm certainly not anti-vax in general, this one just seems rushed through compared to most... As I mentioned in my previous post, 10-15 years is the average development time for a vaccine from what I've read, so pushing one through in under a year does raise alarm bells, regardless of how many scientists you throw at it.

I see it like the flu jab really, old folks and vulnerable folks should get it and then anyone else that feels they need / want it. Like I say, I wouldn't tell someone not to have it, I just personally don't want it.

[Sandbugg]

Perrsonaly  based on what ive read I'd have either mRna vaccines in a heartbeat less so the Oxford astrozenica one based on a primate cold virus and id definitely wary of the Russian sputnik and 2 of the Chinese vaccines based on a deactivated covid19 virus 

I'm also on the vitamin D but I was before all this anyways for other reasons

I belive The reason things are so bad here is the pathological negligence of Alexander borris de phefiffel Johnson and his brexieer yes men and their chronic indecision 

 

[JT!]

21 hours ago, Ali C said:

I’m certainly not taking any vaccine that doesn’t have solid history.

Jane has ordered some Ivermectin from abroad, whether it’ll clear customs we’ll have to see

Isn't that a little contradictory? Not taking a vaccine, but ordering an unprescribed parasite drug by mail? What would be the plan with Ivermectin anyway, if you get covid take Ivermectin?

[Ali C]

How is it contradictory? She’s following her own advice from the research she’s done and avoiding an unproven drug (in the long term) for one that’s proven safe.

[Mark W]

13 hours ago, that NBR dude said:

While I'm no vaccine developing expert, I'd have assumed (perhaps wrongly I admit) that these things are tested over long(er) periods to ascertain any adverse affects down the line, especially when as you say this is something completely new and never tried before. As I say I could be completely wrong on this and it has all followed the exact same route as any other, but I think a lot of the publics reticence is this all feels very "political"... 

https://art19.com/shows/sway/episodes/6bb039fb-ac81-478a-9482-e90f55d0c58a

That might be worth a listen. It's an interview with the people who founded BioNTech where they go into some depth (albeit not a huge amount...) about creating it, the development of it, how that development is still on-going, etc...

12 hours ago, MadManMike said:

I get your point and it's an opinion shared by many. For me, I had Covid back in April and it made me a feel a bit off for 5 days, I had one day off sick purely because I couldn't focus on work, I wasn't bed ridden. Based on that, I don't really feel like I need the vaccine (Especially as I'll now have some degree of immunity to it should I get hit again)...

I see it like the flu jab really, old folks and vulnerable folks should get it and then anyone else that feels they need / want it. Like I say, I wouldn't tell someone not to have it, I just personally don't want it.

That's not really how a vaccine for something as widespread as this works though. My understanding of it is that the aim is to use it to achieve herd immunity (but without going the Dominic Cummings way of just letting everyone die), and that doesn't work if you only give it to the most vulnerable people. You need to hit that threshold %age, and that won't cut it. Couple of other things to bear in mind is that a big part of the problem with this virus is that it's people who aren't necessarily affected by it - to the extent they may be asymptomatic - who do a good job of unwittingly spreading it to people who may be, and the other part is that you never know who may have an adverse reaction to it. "Long covid" f**ks up quite a few younger people too - even healthy, fit younger people. There are riders in my local area who had it in the first wave back in April who are still struggling with lung function now.

With regards to not getting it again, my brother in law got the virus early on, then got it again 2-3 weeks ago which they believe was the newer strain that's much more contagious than the previous version. That's also why the "Just let the most vulnerable people get the vaccine" thing falls down as you're increasing the chances the virus has of mutating and then prolonging things further. He wasn't hugely affected by it apart from feeling (and sounding) like shit for a week, but having seen the amount of people who aren't in an 'at risk' category who have had long term effects from it, and knowing I've got a bit of asthma myself, it's not something I'd particularly want to f**k with.

[JT!]

1 hour ago, Ali C said:

How is it contradictory? She’s following her own advice from the research she’s done and avoiding an unproven drug (in the long term) for one that’s proven safe.

I think what it boils down to is I'm far more trusting of our government. I pay my taxes so large groups of highly educated people can research this kind of thing so my dumb ass doesn't have to make those calls. Obviously your fiancée is educated in this area, but even still the idea that one person does one persons worth of research no matter how educated they are worries me. I also think we know enough about how vaccines work in general to know that it's very unlikely that there's going to be any significant long term health effects. And even if there were given that this vaccine is going to be given to an entire population these issues would be top priority, and then also, are they going to be worse than the long term health effects of covid?

Did you plan on taking this medication daily, or just to treat yourself if you do get covid?

[Davetrials]

Anyone planning any weddings next year?

[aener]

I got married this year, and I've got to be honest - it f**king rocked.

As a relatively hardcore introvert, bordering on recluse (with riding being the one exception, obviously), having a maximum permitted number of people as eleven (including the two of us) was an absolute dream.
Five on my side, six on hers turned out to be ideal for our immediate family numbers anyway, so it gave us a really nice line. No hassle of who you "have to invite" because you invited someone else.

Turned out to be an absolute best-case scenario. If any more people had been there, I would have started to not enjoy it.

I just hope people who might be getting married next year aren't major socialites and the kind of people who need others to see them doing something to make it feel worthwhile. It would suck from their perspective

[Davetrials]

Part of me wants to take this chance to really trim down our wedding guests and use it as an excuse for a super small wedding. sounds perfect to me.

[Mark W]

12 minutes ago, aener said:

I got married this year, and I've got to be honest - it f**king rocked.

Congratulations  

My Dad also got married this year, and it worked out well for them too for similar reasons. Was even more restricted for them at the time - was literally the officials, two witnesses and themselves.

Business. Time.

[JT!]

The whole idea of a big wedding baffles me. Obviously ours was very unorthodox, but looking back it was perfect for us at that time in our lives. The idea of having to figure all that stuff out, make sure it all runs smoothly, come up with the money and deal with all the family drama, as someone who's fairly introverted, it would have been a nightmare. My biggest regret was not hiring a professional photographer however.

[Ali C]

1 hour ago, JT! said:

I think what it boils down to is I'm far more trusting of our government. I pay my taxes so large groups of highly educated people can research this kind of thing so my dumb ass doesn't have to make those calls. Obviously your fiancée is educated in this area, but even still the idea that one person does one persons worth of research no matter how educated they are worries me. I also think we know enough about how vaccines work in general to know that it's very unlikely that there's going to be any significant long term health effects. And even if there were given that this vaccine is going to be given to an entire population these issues would be top priority, and then also, are they going to be worse than the long term health effects of covid?

Did you plan on taking this medication daily, or just to treat yourself if you do get covid?

I think that’s the key, I don’t trust the government at all... they’ve proven to be liars, make shit decisions, appoint lunatics in high power positions etc.

 

 not sure what her plan is, I’m assuming only taking it if she gets sick  

[Al_Fel]

1 hour ago, Ali C said:

I think that’s the key, I don’t trust the government at all... they’ve proven to be liars, make shit decisions, appoint lunatics in high power positions etc.

How can you say that? Show me one instant in history where someone in power abused it and murdered millions of people...

 

If anyone can name a big company that hasn't had some sort of scam or scandal associated with them then I'd be impressed. We live in a world of liars and scammers and if you think any differently then I've got some bad news for you.

[Al_Fel]

Maybe tinfoil hats work...

[Davetrials]

On 22/12/2020 at 2:01 PM, Al_Fel said:

How can you say that? Show me one instant in history where someone in power abused it and murdered millions of people...

 

If anyone can name a big company that hasn't had some sort of scam or scandal associated with them then I'd be impressed. We live in a world of liars and scammers and if you think any differently then I've got some bad news for you.

Anal, aren't you due a covid vaccine conspiracy topic?

[Al_Fel]

17 hours ago, Davetrials said:

Anal, aren't you due a covid vaccine conspiracy topic?

Am I really that bad? I've got no interest in taking the vaccine. For me its like having the Flu jab. I've never had the flu jab so I don't see why I'd need this one?