basstrials Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) Hi everyone.I bought Giant Martin Hawes Trials Team frame (the black one) recently and i would like to be building it right,so i would need your help and advises. Going to use it for street mainly and i hope so to learn do better some trials move on it,so: 1.Could have some rear cassette (maybe road one or maybe mtb one),because i like to do wheelie - my crank set will be Race Face with bash guard and 22th cogin front.Blast from the past - M.Ashton,M.Hawes and R.Leech. 2.What rear derailleur and shifter about? 3.Brakes- Rear one that is my main concern,i am from mtb ground,so i never used legendary HS33.I know it is iconic,but i have never did ride on with. So i think would put disk on front and what rear on?Is this frame strong enough on the back to utilized,let say Magura M5 or M7 for example,back on? What about the disks,how big they have to be,without putting too much stress on fork and frame?Fork is Saracen Mad,but i am planning to get Echo Urban. 4.Any thoughts about bar length and rise,stem length and angle? 5.Suggestions about headset. I am new to trials and my whole life i just wanted to have such frame,now i have it and want to build it in right way. Any thoughts,advises and help will be appreciated. Cheers and stay healthy. Edited October 13, 2020 by basstrials 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maintenance Justice Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 Sounds like a fun project 1 / 2 - The old skool method was to fit a road cassette and derailleur. A 9spd road cassette with 11-23 combined with a short cage road rear derailleur would work well and fit the bike / rear hub. Shimano SORA would work well and unlike the old days where you had to use an MTB shifter with the road mech which was sometimes not great Shimano now do flat bar shifters for their SORA groupset so the gears will work consitantly! You will have to keep the chain tight so see if you can source a DCD for period correctness. 3 - Those frames were likely designed around a 160mm disc (feel free to correct) and I wouldn't go any bigger. The brake calliper you use won't make a difference, it's the leverage caused by fitting bigger rotors that kills frames. An HS brake would look cool but I would use a booster to stop too much flex and look to grind or tar the rear wheel to help with bite. 4 - I'll leave that to someone with more of an idea! 5 - Good old FSA orbit will do the job fine. External cup 1-1/8" - available pretty cheaply everywhere and will look period too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted October 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 I have been told that this frame is not recommended for rear disk brake,but i really wondering why is that,because it is has month holes on the rear.It is too weak for nowadays brake or what?I am a beginner and i am old,so i would not do big stuffs,even if i could,just stuffs like manual,bunny hops,wheelie and try to learn some trial techniques,if i can of course.I looked for rims about HS33 everywhere ....it is tough task,apparently,that is why thinking about disk on back.From other hand i don want to damage the frame....I do not .... Thank you,very much for the help.I will forward for other opinions,as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maintenance Justice Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 If its the version with an IS disc mount they were pretty poor, the mount isn't the best and likely to break for proper trials use. Most of those bikes will have been used with HS brakes on the rear. A company called Ryde make solid 26" rims. They're seriously heavy duty and have a big brake track, ideal for HS brakes. They're cheap too. Not the lightest but probably not far off period correct rims https://www.ryde.nl/zac-2000 You can do all the riding you want to on the bike but don't forget it's old and old alloy can crack easier. Older bikes geometry makes certain trials moves harder but it doesn't matter as long as you enjoy riding it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted October 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 Yes,you are right.It is better not put disk brake on back.I read that is the weakest part of this frame,so i will stick to Magura HS33.Thank you for your suggestion about Ryde rims,but i think that Zac 421 would be better choice,because Magura recommend rim to be not wider than 28 mm (talking about HS33),so there would be 1,5mm gap between each of the both pads.I have ordered Sun Ringle Rhyno Lite 36h,which are for rim brakes and are 27,5mm wide.Did not find any review,but i think they will do the job.I cannot have pictures of the frame,because bought it from ebay and i am outside UK,still waiting for delivery.Will put some pictures here in future,how it is goes. Meanwhile,are these rim hydraulic brakes too noisy?I have only use disk ones,so i have no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maintenance Justice Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 The Rhyno lites are good, a classic rim and solid. HS brakes will be noisy if you grind or tar the rim. If you use standard Magura pads on un treated rims they'll be mostly quiet but won't have the bite needed for back wheel trials moves. Try them as standard and if you need more bite grind the rim and upgrade the pads. I kinda like the loud Magura noise, it's the sound of Trials ;-) Just have fun with it, try stuff out and go ride and make adjustments if you feel you need to 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 The disc mount on the black frame is much better than the yellow banana mount on the limited edition yellow frames. The Giants don't have a seat stay/chain stay brace though, so just watch the dropouts for cracks but i'm sure you'd be fine running a 160/180 if its just for manuals. Just try not to be too harsh on the set up, for example, don't land with the brake on if you are rolling backwards. It kills callipers and frames. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted October 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 8 hours ago, Ross McArthur said: The disc mount on the black frame is much better than the yellow banana mount on the limited edition yellow frames. The Giants don't have a seat stay/chain stay brace though, so just watch the dropouts for cracks but i'm sure you'd be fine running a 160/180 if its just for manuals. Just try not to be too harsh on the set up, for example, don't land with the brake on if you are rolling backwards. It kills callipers and frames. Thank you.I rather will stick to HS33,i want to try it out.What size front rotor should be?I am thinking to put MT4 with 160 or 180,not sure about,because not very familiar with this Saracen Mad fork.Are they strong enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted October 22, 2020 Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 On 15/10/2020 at 5:38 PM, basstrials said: Saracen Mad fork.Are they strong enough? Dunno? Let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted October 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2020 9 hours ago, Ross McArthur said: Dunno? Let us know. No problems....if i am still alive after this! Any hints about stem length and angle,handlebar’s too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross McArthur Posted October 23, 2020 Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 Cant really go wrong with maybe a 100-110mm stem with 10-15degree rise with 2" riser bars with 20-25mm of stem spacers underneath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted October 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2020 9 hours ago, Ross McArthur said: Cant really go wrong with maybe a 100-110mm stem with 10-15degree rise with 2" riser bars with 20-25mm of stem spacers underneath. Thank you.I think i am going to try 100/12 stem and Pro FRS 40 mm rise bar that i have.It is 800 mm,but it is going to be cut down to 720-730. I really appreciate your time,because there i have no luck to find what stem (length and degree) Martin Hawyes did use back then,so any help how to build it is welcome,to reference point,at least.Still waiting frame to arrived (i am outside UK)and i will post some pictures when it is ready. Have a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted November 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 A little update,not much but this right now,i hope so to finished it next week.I am waiting black and yellow Selle and some other stuffs to arrived,so i could move on. The handlebar is cheap one,so it is going to be replaced,just wanted to try higher rise (around 105 total rise)and 720mm width paired with stem 100/17. What do you things about Trialtech Hybrid bar? Have a nice day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 That's a seriously high front end for a very dated frame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted November 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, LEON said: That's a seriously high front end for a very dated frame. I have new 100/10,but i wanted to try these ones out,just experience,i would say.Just watching some pictures of this bike and you are right,it is too high.Thank you for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted November 16, 2020 Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 It's not just that, you have 20mm of spacers too, these old bikes are sluggish with long chainstays and low bottom brackets. The standard back then was pretty much 90 x 10, 2" risers and hardly any spacers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted November 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2020 3 hours ago, LEON said: It's not just that, you have 20mm of spacers too, these old bikes are sluggish with long chainstays and low bottom brackets. The standard back then was pretty much 90 x 10, 2" risers and hardly any spacers. Thank you,about the points.The chainstay is exact 400mm and bb is almost zero or maybe -5 or close to this.I am very new to trials,just try to make some appropriate beginners bike to start with.I know that most people here is sick with some rookie questions,so i appreciated everyones view and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 No it's cool, but a lot of people try and set old frames up like a Hex, when the frame is nothing like a Hex. 400mm is huge by today's standards, even 390mm is pretty much unacceptable. Your frame will benefit from a short, low stem, around 90mm, 2 inch risers. Pretty much what they were designed for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 No it's cool, but a lot of people try and set old frames up like a Hex, when the frame is nothing like a Hex. 400mm is huge by today's standards, even 390mm is pretty much unacceptable. Your frame will benefit from a short, low stem, around 90mm, 2 inch risers. Pretty much what they were designed for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted November 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) Is it that your bike?Man,i have downloaded this picture a few days ago and wanted to do it like this,but front disk brake with.Did you have any stem spacers it on? I do not know why people try to "converting" it to Hex,but i want street bike to learn some stuffs and ride around the town,also, so that is why i put 7 speed cassette on back.What is like to run rear v-brake back on?I have always had rear disk brake,just wander if it is going to make a job well,i am a 90 kilos. Did order Jitsie brake pads,the white ones,i hope so they will work on smooth rims like mine.Any other brands and models recommendation? Thank you. Edited November 17, 2020 by basstrials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEON Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 Not my bike, just a decent example of a front end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basstrials Posted November 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 That is the final build...for now,at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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