Rip

Street Trials, tubes, tubeless or tube + insert?

50 posts in this topic

This is exactly the aforementioned 'faff' I was referring to in my initially. 

I'm about to just call it and ditch the whole idea, now I've finally got it all back together I can't get the damn bead to seal. Pumping super fast with a track pump and it just won't inflate. 

I think I'd rather just change tubes out on a ride rather than piss about with this every few months when the sealant needs changing. I have a full time job and I've already spent far too many hours this weekend on it and still not even got it close to being ridable. These Continental tyres are super hard to get on the rim anyway, add in a tyre insert and it's almost impossible, so constantly taking it on and off while trying to get the whole system to work seems like a massive waste of time (for me anyway). 

I'd love to see a video of someone fitting the Rimpact inserts to the Inspired V2 rims with Conti MacAskill tyres with a track pump. 

Edited by Rip

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1 hour ago, Rip said:

This is exactly the aforementioned 'faff' I was referring to in my initially. 

I'm about to just call it and ditch the whole idea, now I've finally got it all back together I can't get the damn bead to seal. Pumping super fast with a track pump and it just won't inflate. 

I think I'd rather just change tubes out on a ride rather than piss about with this every few months when the sealant needs changing. I have a full time job and I've already spent far too many hours this weekend on it and still not even got it close to being ridable. These Continental tyres are super hard to get on the rim anyway, add in a tyre insert and it's almost impossible, so constantly taking it on and off while trying to get the whole system to work seems like a massive waste of time (for me anyway). 

I'd love to see a video of someone fitting the Rimpact inserts to the Inspired V2 rims with Conti MacAskill tyres with a track pump. 

I work in a bike shop and do a fair few tubeless conversions and have got to say that it's all about having a meticulous routine. It can definitely be a faff quite easily, but it's all in the prep.

Obviously having set up dozens and dozens of tubeless tyres it's possible to have it done in 10 minutes, but I fully understand the issues you're having. Even now there's the occasional tyre that just wants none of it and turns into a bit of a battle haha. An air compressor definitely helps; the battle with a trackpump can be quite demoralising.

I'd personally say it's definitely worth the faff though - just stick at it :)

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17 minutes ago, onzatpro09 said:

I work in a bike shop and do a fair few tubeless conversions and have got to say that it's all about having a meticulous routine. It can definitely be a faff quite easily, but it's all in the prep.

Obviously having set up dozens and dozens of tubeless tyres it's possible to have it done in 10 minutes, but I fully understand the issues you're having. Even now there's the occasional tyre that just wants none of it and turns into a bit of a battle haha. An air compressor definitely helps; the battle with a trackpump can be quite demoralising.

I'd personally say it's definitely worth the faff though - just stick at it :)

Thanks, I followed all the instructions and video instructions I could find but obviously still had issues. I'm not about to buy a different track pump on the off chance it might work and definitely not buying a compressor with presta attachment just for this one job so moving forward this system just isn't going to be practical for me with regards to time and cost. 

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One thing I did actually forget to try when trying to get the beads seated was removing the valve core. 

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I'm going to give it one more attempt with the garden sprayer trick this week. 

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I've just had another go, managed to get the tyre inflated (didn't hear any beads popping into place) and it seems to hold about 50psi without sealant and without the tyre insert fitted. But, when I deflate it ready to fit the insert and the sealant, the tyre beads do not stay seated?!

So my concern now is that once I've fitted the insert and initially inflated the tyre that the beads are not actually seating so when I remove the valve core to add the sealant the tyre beads will just move out of place again like they are doing now. Any ideas?

Annoyingly my track pump won't actually work over the valve with the core removed so I've had to inflated the tyre with the core in place (Not easy). It's definitely holding a decent amount of pressure but clearly the beads are not actually seated. 

Edit/ it's not actually holding pressure, left it for a while and it deflated, so I guess my issue is not being able to get the beads to seat. The issue must be the fact that my track pump won't work on the valve with the core removed. 

Edited by Rip

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It sounds to me that you need to get yourself to a bike shop to get an air compressor on it. Or buy yourself a tubeless tyre track pump.

To me, there is no point trying to get the tyre to seat before you've got the insert in. They are tight but they definitely go on so you've just got to get that bit sorted. From the picture you put up with the zipties on, it looks as if you've not pushed your bead in under the insert on the bit of tyre that you do have on the rim already, which definitely needs to happen to get the insert in. 

When you're trying to seat the tyres are you lubricating the beads with some soapy water? If not, then definitely recommend this. It just helps the bead move across the tape better from experience. 

Typically i follow this routine:

  1. One side of tyre fully on (doesn't need to be seated)
  2. Tubeless valve in (with core still in place)
  3. insert fitted over rim
  4. start fitting other side of the tyre starting at the valve and moving both ways so that the last bit of tyre to be fitted is opposite the valve core
  5. Make sure as you go round that you push this side of the tyre into the middle of the rim underneath the insert (typically i used a tyre lever for this)
  6. When you get to the last bit of tyre you can pour sealant in the side of the tyre at this point (or wait till step 9 if you want less mess) 
  7. Rotate the wheel so the the sealant goes to where the valve is
  8. Use tyre levers to fit the last bit of bead as this will typically be tight regardless
  9. take valve core out (and you can put in sealant at this point if you didn't at step 6)
  10. Spin the wheel to get the sealant all around the inside of the wheel
  11. Apply soapy water on both beads and the inside of the rim wall (i'd get a brush to apply at this point to get right in there)
  12. Pump (i've got a tubeless tyre track pump) or compressor on with the valve core at the top of the wheel
  13. Get pumping then squirm and squeal when the tyre pops (every time).
  14. take pump off and then put valve core back in (i don't let tyre right down, i get my finger over the open core and then put the valve core in before tyre fully deflates)
  15. pump tyre back up to about 45 psi and give it some good ol' spins to get that sealant into all the pores then leave over night

If you've tried all of that and are still struggling, then recommend you taking it to your local bike shop for them to do it. They'll have it done in no-time.

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11 minutes ago, ben_travis said:

It sounds to me that you need to get yourself to a bike shop to get an air compressor on it. Or buy yourself a tubeless tyre track pump.

To me, there is no point trying to get the tyre to seat before you've got the insert in. They are tight but they definitely go on so you've just got to get that bit sorted. From the picture you put up with the zipties on, it looks as if you've not pushed your bead in under the insert on the bit of tyre that you do have on the rim already, which definitely needs to happen to get the insert in. 

When you're trying to seat the tyres are you lubricating the beads with some soapy water? If not, then definitely recommend this. It just helps the bead move across the tape better from experience. 

Typically i follow this routine:

  1. One side of tyre fully on (doesn't need to be seated)
  2. Tubeless valve in (with core still in place)
  3. insert fitted over rim
  4. start fitting other side of the tyre starting at the valve and moving both ways so that the last bit of tyre to be fitted is opposite the valve core
  5. Make sure as you go round that you push this side of the tyre into the middle of the rim underneath the insert (typically i used a tyre lever for this)
  6. When you get to the last bit of tyre you can pour sealant in the side of the tyre at this point (or wait till step 9 if you want less mess) 
  7. Rotate the wheel so the the sealant goes to where the valve is
  8. Use tyre levers to fit the last bit of bead as this will typically be tight regardless
  9. take valve core out (and you can put in sealant at this point if you didn't at step 6)
  10. Spin the wheel to get the sealant all around the inside of the wheel
  11. Apply soapy water on both beads and the inside of the rim wall (i'd get a brush to apply at this point to get right in there)
  12. Pump (i've got a tubeless tyre track pump) or compressor on with the valve core at the top of the wheel
  13. Get pumping then squirm and squeal when the tyre pops (every time).
  14. take pump off and then put valve core back in (i don't let tyre right down, i get my finger over the open core and then put the valve core in before tyre fully deflates)
  15. pump tyre back up to about 45 psi and give it some good ol' spins to get that sealant into all the pores then leave over night

If you've tried all of that and are still struggling, then recommend you taking it to your local bike shop for them to do it. They'll have it done in no-time.

Awesome thanks dude, I'll put the insert in and have another go tomorrow then, now that the insert has been on and off a couple of times it's actually a bit easier to get in now. I didn't lube the beads actually so I'll do that as well. My track pump won't fit over the valve stem, it seems it was designed to just be big enough to fit over a presta valve core so won't quite stretch over the valve stem, I do have a garden pump sprayer though which I've seen people use to rapidly inflate tubeless tyres so I'll try that also. If all that fails then I'll have to buy a better pump. 

Edited by Rip

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Ben, what pump do you have then? I can see me having to replace mine. I've been looking at the Topeak Joe Blow Booster pump or the Lezyne Pressure Overdrive Pump or the Bontrager Flash Charger. 

Edited by Rip

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I managed to get the pump below on a deal but heard decent things about the Topeak and leyzene pump too

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/lifeline-airblast-tubeless-tyre-track-pump/rp-prod155451

EDIT: Should add that it’s managed to get nearly every tyre bar one airking seated. That includes all sorts of mtb tyres. After the one that didn’t seat was when I started lubricating the bead and rim and it’s been near faultless since. 

Edited by ben_travis
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4 minutes ago, ben_travis said:

I managed to get the pump below on a deal but heard decent things about the Topeak and leyzene pump too

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/lifeline-airblast-tubeless-tyre-track-pump/rp-prod155451

EDIT: Should add that it’s managed to get nearly every tyre bar one airking seated. That includes all sorts of mtb tyres. After the one that didn’t seat was when I started lubricating the bead and rim and it’s been near faultless since. 

Awesome thank you. 

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Ok so STILL no joy here, bought a tubeless pump with a charger canister built in. Rimpact insert in the tyre, plenty of washing up liquid on the tyre beads, charged the pump up to the recommended psi (160) and STILL the beads don't pop into place, 3 times, no joy. 

This pump got some very good reviews BUT it's recommended that you use it with the valve core in place (seen videos that shows it popping beads on with the valve core in place), and as such the pumps valve head won't fit on the valve body with the core removed (just like my old pump). I assume all valve stems are the same diameter? This new pump and my old pumps just won't clamp down on the diameter of the valve stem. 

20201121_08572820201121_085724

 

 

 

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Managed to get the pump head on the valve stem by wrapping a bit of tape round it, charged pump up to 160 psi, STILL won't pop the beads on, no popping noises and the soap and water show that air is still leaking past the beads, and if I poke the side of the tyre air just comes out past the beads. 

Edited by Rip

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The beads 'look' seated so it's not like something is massively obstructing them, but they are not actually seated. 

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Loving the tubeless experience so far, £170 and a week and a half and still can't ride the bike. I especially love how Gorilla tape just welds itself to the rim when you try to remove it and leaves it's glue everywhere so it's impossible to remove. Good times. 

20201121_104350

 

 

 

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There are schrader valve stems for tubeless use. https://www.bike24.com/p2272511.html  But, this thread is exactly why I haven't embraced tubeless. Tubes work just fine for me, guess I'm lucky that way. Hopefully you'll be back on the bike one way or another soon.

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From the picture below, it appears your tape is only across the middle of the rim and not across where the tyre sits. It needs to be the FULL width of the rim including on the flat section where the tyre sits. From experience this pushes the tyre bead up into the catch on the rim. 

5 hours ago, Rip said:

 

20201121_104350

 

 

 

 

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Just now, ben_travis said:

From the picture below, it appears your tape is only across the middle of the rim and not across where the tyre sits. It needs to be the FULL width of the rim including on the flat section where the tyre sits. From experience this pushes the tyre bead up into the catch on the rim. 

 

Thanks mate, that's actually the conclusion I came to earlier and was the reason I was removing the tape, but as you can see my rim is covered in the glue and I gave up trying to get it off for now. 

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I've got all the actual tape off now but the glue doesn't want to budge. 

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Don’t worry about the glue, just tape back over it. After a recent hub swap I’ve re-taped mine with glue under with no issues

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5 minutes ago, ben_travis said:

Don’t worry about the glue, just tape back over it. After a recent hub swap I’ve re-taped mine with glue under with no issues

Cool, I'll try that then, nothing to loose I guess. 

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3 hours ago, Swoofty said:

There are schrader valve stems for tubeless use. https://www.bike24.com/p2272511.html  But, this thread is exactly why I haven't embraced tubeless. Tubes work just fine for me, guess I'm lucky that way. Hopefully you'll be back on the bike one way or another soon.

Nice one, might be worth a look as well then if I still can't get the beads seated after making my tape wider. 

Edited by Rip

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Well, still no joy, taped the whole width of the rim, still not seating beads. No popping, soap still shows leaking air past the beads. That's with the valve core removed (have to hold the pump head on the valve stem by hand) and a 160psi blast. I'm all out of ideas as I'm pretty sure at this point I've done everything I should have done. 

20201122_134709

 

 

 

Edited by Rip

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What the hell is going on, thought I had it seated, and saw some tiny air leaks in tyre wall, so filled with sealant, and now every time I try to inflate to seat again the tyre blows of the rim!!!! Sealant everywhere, all over my brake rotor, hosed it all off but I hope it hasn't contaminated my rotor. 

At this point I'm done with it. I might take my wheels to my LBS but what's the point in having a system that you can't deal with at home as I'll need to change the sealant every 6 months. My only hope would be that they spot something I haven't and are able to relay a working method to me so I can service them myself. 

Edited by Rip

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