KOXX-UK

Try All Freewheel

272 posts in this topic

people should understand IF a hub has 26 pick ups weather put on the blinking front or rear it has the god damn same. they shouldnt worry about it.......................

i dont see where the problem is a prime example. why do people buy chris king??? cos they have 72 pickups!!!! its simple its all about numbers!!!!! to some people any way. im quite happy with what iv got and what i get, i make the most of it and enjoy it, YES i will probably end up testing one of the Try-All freewheels and see how it goes.im sure i have no where near as much power as vincent and if he hasnt broken one, i seem to think it shall of been well tested (Y):) we'll see shortly

Waynio.....................

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people should understand IF a hub has 26 pick ups weather put on the blinking front or rear it has the god damn same. they shouldnt worry about it.......................

i dont see where the problem is a prime example. why do people buy chris king??? cos they have 72 pickups!!!! its simple its all about numbers!!!!! to some people any way. im quite happy with what iv got and what i get, i make the most of it and enjoy it, YES i will probably end up testing one of the Try-All freewheels and see how it goes.im sure i have no where near as much power as vincent and if he hasnt broken one, i seem to think it shall of been well tested (Y):) we'll see shortly

Waynio.....................

I disagree with your point about CK hubs. I don't like mine simply because it's got 72 EPs, it's obviously a big highlight of the hub but other than that it's well known that CKs are arguably the best quality hubs you can buy for a bike of *any* discipline. With my HD axle I know it's probably the strongest hub that will fit 10mm dropout frames. It's one of the lightests rear hubs around. It's simple to maintain (just a quick clean and squirt of lube every 3-6 months).

All these points can be applied in a similar way to the freewheel market. Engagement points are important obviously but riders will also take into account quality, strength, weight and ease of maintenance.

I'm also confused as to why you have such a problem with Mark's point about degrees rotation required for a freewheel to engage. He was simply explaining how little difference those 36 extra EPs make over the ENO. 1.6666666666 degrees is literally FECK ALL. You will barely notice the difference, if you do it'll be psychological, which in theory could have the same effect as having a considerably better product but in practice also has very little effect.

My personal opinion on this however is that Koxx/Try-all have done an excellent job in pushing the boundaries of trials technology yet again. 108 engagement points will instantly attract sales so as long as they match the rest of the points I raised earlier (although it seems even simple maintenance is going to be an absolute fanny to carry out) then it will be a succesful product.

Of course I won't be buying one, nothing beats CKs imo :shifty:

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Sounds like a great freewheel but just one question:

1 - Will this freewheel be avaliable in 16 & 18 tooth.?

Cheers !

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I agree that CK's are very good, but will never be an option for me. Not because I am obliged to use a given product, but because of ease of maintenance at a comp. No need for my minder to lug a spare 26" wheel about, just a crank arm with freewheel fitted, there is always one in the ruck sack. Can't imagine risking a dnf over a hub problem.

Ben

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This little mofo sound one Beasty ! bit of kit.

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people should understand IF a hub has 26 pick ups weather put on the blinking front or rear it has the god damn same. they shouldnt worry about it.......................

With freewheels on the back compared to the front though, you've got the advantage of having a gear ratio, which is why it appears that they theoretically have more engagement points (like on Tarty, they have "Hope Pro2T 48eps (giving 72eps at the pedals)" or whatever it is. That's what he was asking about, which is what I was explaining to him. All I was doing was answering a question that had been asked?

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youve got a dis advantage of the "freewheel" being at the back too. it takes more for it to pick up in the first place.

i cant believe someone is telling me that a "X" pick up hub for example a profile on the back, 48 pick up, picks up 72 times when its on the back!!!! :lol::lol:

the hub can only pick up the circle inside it, why it would bother anyone who owuld know. all we are talking about is a new product, that HAS THEE most pick up on the british market. weather you like it or not that is the TRUTH. if onza would have done it, onzaboymark would be praising the socks off it.

weather something has 1 pick up to 101 pick ups to me it will not affect how i look @ or do things, but its obvious to some people THIS is what matters, people buy chris kings on their pick up MORE so than the quality or the weight, im afraid that is a fact of life. ok they may buy it for "how it works"

BUT like ben has said, why lug a spare wheel round when you can take round a crank with a freewheel on a right hand arm. Shaun H i dont see why you have to get so foxy, onzaboymark is trying to say a hub that HAS and states in the product catalogue has more than what it SAYS it has???? whos bullshitting here??? oh it must be me. iv got an ENO with 172 pick ups how kool am i? B) (thats NOT true)

iv been in trials for 5 years, iv used literally everything i can use, and i have to say F/Freewheel has changed me, its weird but it is slightly better. i dont see why you have to question what i think?i have only questioned mark in the respect that he is trying to explain to someone something i dont think is possible? if he can say yes this is how/what/why? fair play. but i cant see how something with "X" pick up, when it is put on the BACK of a bike has "Y" pickup???

Waynio......................

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i cant believe someone is telling me that a "X" pick up hub for example a profile on the back, 48 pick up, picks up 72 times when its on the back!!!! :lol::lol:

Waynio......................

calm down wayne :lol: the hub will still have 48 engagement points, but on a 20" bike you have a 18:12 (3:2) gearing. that means, every crank rotation you do the wheel will spin 1.5 rotations. Same thing it back-pedalling, you spin the cranks 1 rotation while the hub spin 1.5x. Thats why you get 72 positions for the cranks to be in.

With a CK on a 20" bike you'll get 108 positions. 72*1.5=108.

With a CK on a bike with 1:1 gearing, lets say you ride 18:18 for some reason, you will have 72 crank positions.

With a TA front freewheel you spin the cranks one rotation and get 108.

hope that helped for something. peter :sleeping:

PS. when will the TA freewheel be out for sale?

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LMAO!!!! i got that bit (sort of :S ) lol!!!!

its the fact that fred has put up what its all about yet, people still arent convinced. you have to strip down naked (we need porter for this 1!!!) and they still ownt believe it.

so in thoery its like saying this 3:2 ration on a Try-All freewheel will be MEGA!!! :S it just doesnt need what has been said about it, Feeley had the right idea in the 1st place. lets not critisize until people have ridden them, the worlds best have so if there good enough for them, there good enough for anyone on here. if anything maybe too good.

Not a problem i havent got one, i would like to try one. and we'll see how it goes.

Waynio.......................

People should read Freds post ;) he older wiser and much more experienced than the majority of people in this thread including MYSELF!!!!

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I agree that CK's are very good, but will never be an option for me. Not because I am obliged to use a given product, but because of ease of maintenance at a comp. No need for my minder to lug a spare 26" wheel about, just a crank arm with freewheel fitted, there is always one in the ruck sack. Can't imagine risking a dnf over a hub problem.

Ben

Never thort of that before, lmao what a tit. :$

kings suck anyway there to expensive.

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Never thort of that before, lmao what a tit. :$

kings suck anyway there to expensive.

They far from suck, it;s you that sucks for not being able to afford one :lol:

Phil.

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They far from suck, it;s you that sucks for not being able to afford one :lol:

Phil.

kings are the boyos!

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lets not critisize until people have ridden them, the worlds best have so if there good enough for them, there good enough for anyone on here. if anything maybe too good.

noone said anything bad about them as far as i can see.

peters explination is top notch, really really clear.

sound pretty cool. 108 maybe a bit of overkill, but alot of trials products are. i want!!

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i pm'd mark about it and he explained it alot better,and i agree with what he is saying BUT you do the same with the "TA" freewheel and he give me an example and you would get like 132 pick up points. if you run summit like 22-18. the easiest way to think about it and look @ it is from "Stats" how the manufacturer SELL the product, we can look @ how mark and peter have said and "Think" and convince ourselves that were getting alot more than what we are.

What the company say is what they are selling to you.i should sell Hope Pro2 at aire valley with "68" clicks instead of 48 what ever they have :S then under my breath say "but you have to run "x,y & z" ratio.

Live sleep ride and enjoy trials, take the numbers from what manufacturers put in their specifications.

Waynio............................

YES we could all break it down and become "expert scientist" and "mathsmaticians" BUT hey its trials, people give feedback on what they have used TAKE that OVER the maths work and science work its much easier and doesnt confuse the brain as much ;)

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calm down wayne :lol: the hub will still have 48 engagement points, but on a 20" bike you have a 18:12 (3:2) gearing. that means, every crank rotation you do the wheel will spin 1.5 rotations. Same thing it back-pedalling, you spin the cranks 1 rotation while the hub spin 1.5x. Thats why you get 72 positions for the cranks to be in.

With a CK on a 20" bike you'll get 108 positions. 72*1.5=108.

With a CK on a bike with 1:1 gearing, lets say you ride 18:18 for some reason, you will have 72 crank positions.

With a TA front freewheel you spin the cranks one rotation and get 108.

hope that helped for something. peter :sleeping:

PS. when will the TA freewheel be out for sale?

I think what you're missing and this is why everyone is getting confused its that in order to get the FEELING of having a CK's EP's on the back you would need 108 EP's on the front, there are no extra pickup points just a mechanical advantage.

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I love the way, this topic and the tensile topic are next to each other in the news section :):lol:

I think that these two will provide a damn good choice for those who use freewheels. Could possibly overcome ENO's ? Not sure but either way it is good to see another consumer based product :)

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the topic should be "Try-all Vs Tensile"

Waynio.....................

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i cant believe someone is telling me that a "X" pick up hub for example a profile on the back, 48 pick up, picks up 72 times when its on the back!!!! :lol::lol:

Live sleep ride and enjoy trials, take the numbers from what manufacturers put in their specifications.

All that said, it can't just be ignored.

There are people on here who post up saying "I was going to buy a profile but they have less ep's so i'm going to buy an ENO". Yes, they do, but they'll feel the same. You can't just ignore it. Especially when comparing two products like freehweels and rear hubs.

Could possibly overcome ENO's ?

IMO, i'd still prefer the eno over the try-all freewheel, due to the fact that they have sealed bearings. It's all fun and games untill you need to service/repair your tensile/tryall freehwheel.

I think the general option will be that the try-all is better then the tensile, there's no real reason why someone would buy a tensile over a try-all freehwheel (unless they're on a budget.) So i would really say there's any need for tensile vs try-all comments, becuase the try-all wins.

youve got a dis advantage of the "freewheel" being at the back too. it takes more for it to pick up in the first place.

I can't see what your talking about there. Which ever system you have, the freeheel/hub enganes and the chain gets tort. Same thing weather it's on the front or the back. Just in a different order, which won't effet anything.

Edited by JT!

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What the company say is what they are selling to you.i should sell Hope Pro2 at aire valley with "68" clicks instead of 48 what ever they have :S then under my breath say "but you have to run "x,y & z" ratio.

No, you'd sell it as a 48 engagement point hub, however, if someone asked a question like Snowy did, which is what I answered with that information, you're now in a better position to tell them what it would feel like. Seriously, that's why all this started - Snowy asked what it would be like on the back, I told him. I didn't say "The product is shit" or anything like that, he asked a question, I answered it. That is all that happened.

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i would pay extra money for extra engagements even if it means replacing a try all freewheel evrey year then i'd still do that over pay 35 for a freewheel which i'd have to replace as often if not more often than a try-all one with less engagements

koxx some of the best trials bikes in the world and therefore must have quality parts on them onza make reasonably priced bikes so they must be lacking some of the quality that koxx have.

if vincent hermance who is imo the best trials rider to this date can use one for 3 months then i'm sure that it will cope with the minimal strains coming from an average rider like me.

if it was one dab between you winning the world championship and being second , if it came down to that 0.01111 degree angle from touching the rock then you would be pissed off if you didn't win.

basically i will always go for the try-all free wheel over the eno or the tensile, GaV

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if vincent hermance who is imo the best trials rider to this date can use one for 3 months then i'm sure that it will cope with the minimal strains coming from an average rider like me.

There are a lot people out there who are a hell of alot better than me who ride tensile cranks and KMC kool chains with no problems, and have never snapped a tensile crank or kmc cool chain. I've snapped both. Giving it to one top rider, and saying "If he didn't brake it, no one can" isn't a great comment.

koxx some of the best trials bikes in the world and therefore must have quality parts on them

onza make reasonably priced bikes so they must be lacking some of the quality that koxx have.

That's probably the dodgiest use of the word 'must' i have ever seen. It dosn't work like that. You basicly saying becuase it has the word "try-all" on it, it's going to be great. :huh:

if it was one dab between you winning the world championship and being second , if it came down to that 0.01111 degree angle from touching the rock then you would be pissed off if you didn't win.

I very much doubt that a rider has ever dabbed becuase they didn't have enough EP's. :lol: When you have about 72's ep's it really is enough. I'm not saying that more is bad, i'm saying quite the opposite. But 72ep's would do anybody.

Edited by JT!

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There are a lot people out there who are a hell of alot better than me who ride tensile cranks and KMC kool chains with no problems, and have never snapped a tensile crank or kmc cool chain. I've snapped both. Giving it to one top rider, and saying "If he didn't brake it, no one can" isn't a great comment.

That's probably the dodgiest use of the word 'must' i have ever seen. It dosn't work like that. You basicly saying becuase it has the word "try-all" on it, it's going to be great. :huh:

I very much doubt that a rider has ever dabbed becuase they didn't have enough EP's. :lol: When you have about 72's ep's it really is enough. I'm not saying that more is bad, i'm saying quite the opposite. But 72ep's would do anybody.

i'm pretty sure whoever tested tensile's cranks probs snapped a pair and kmc chains are not designed for trials so they are allways going to break

even if vincent does break them they are still going to be one of the best freewheels around however if they are not, then tensile or eno will have another option there for you to choose from.

no being branded Try-all isin't going to make it any better a product however it gives me reasurance that past try-all products have been good bar the odd few things just like onza have a few great products but quite a few not so great ones too.

if i gave you a shimano 8 ep hub and you rode a comp with it would it compare to riding with a profile or eno, of coarse not because more is better to a certain extent imo, however i think that anything over 108 ep is just silly because it makes very little difference anyway.

Gav

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i'm pretty sure whoever tested tensile's cranks probs snapped a pair

I bet not, if they did, they probably wouldn't have realeased them.

even if vincent does break them they are still going to be one of the best freewheels around however if they are not, then tensile or eno will have another option there for you to choose from.

Your starting to controdict yourself now. "even if vincent does break them they are still going to be one of the best freewheels around" How can that be? :ermm: Then you say "if they are not" when you just said "they are still going to be one of the best freewheels". :lol:

if i gave you a shimano 8 ep hub and you rode a comp with it would it compare to riding with a profile or eno, of coarse not because more is better to a certain extent imo, however i think that anything over 108 ep is just silly because it makes very little difference anyway.

Well, 8ep is an extream. What i'm saying is once u get to 60ep, 72ep 108ep 475ep are pritty much going to feel the same.

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I personally like a little bit of movement between EP's. Can't really explain it but it just feels like Im not engaged all the time and not 'tied' to my bike

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I would disagree with the "great quality koxx" comment totally.

imo there over priced , shite warantee, and dont really think about their designs, then when they fail they offer no warantee.

i agree after 48 ep its pretty pointless i prefer less than more up to 48 anyway.

king doesnt feel as good to me as profile etc.

i think a 72 ep freewheel, with sealed bearings, bb extraction, good warantee. would be great but its a bit of a mix and match with koxx not being in there at all

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