Try All Freewheel

[KOXX-UK]

The Joy of trials forum!

Give a polite customer some friendly advice and suddenly your products are crap.

So for the negative on here;

In 2004 KOXX supplied me with some early ISIS cranks. The thread on RH crank did not allow a freewheel or fixed cog to be screwed on easily.

Problems aside, Ben liked the shape of the crank arms, so I retained them for his use. I have fitted every bike he has ridden in the last two years with those cranks; they were not sold to the public.

The result was that I eventually found a very simple way to overcome the problem; I passed this info onto a customer – simple as that.

I have many “other” cranks to test, the freewheels fit fine, no problems. I have no idea why the thread on a well used Monty crank posed a problem, but the problem is solved.

The good news is that the 108.9 functions very well indeed. I built Ben a V racing ready for the World’s on Friday, (complete with 2004 reject cranks), including the new freewheel in place of his trusted Eno. He tells me the greatest advantage is felt when you need an instant “second bounce” on a large obstacle, much quicker response with no noticeable free travel before pick up. The 108.9 is staying on, if he preferred anything else I would fit it.

Fred.

[rav]

Maybe French super skilled designers mixed Thread Standards ? LOL

most producers like ECHO, MONTY, BT etc... use ISO English 1.37" x 24tpi = 1.37"= 34.92mm

French 34.7mm x 1mm,

Italian 35mm x 24tpi.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#freewheel

Our cogs/cranks use ISO standard threads: 1.375" x 24TPI

(34.92mm x 1.058mm). This threading was chosen due to its

compatibility with other threads used on bicycle hubs. ISO

threads fit English and Italian threads almost perfectly. It is

important to not switch back and forth between cogs and/or

hubs with different threads. FYI, the only hub that an ISO

thread is not compatible with is one with French threading

(34.7mm x 1mm).

IF FW is too tight, then seems KOXX use FW thread French 34.7mm I/O English 34.92mm

[Will Arnold]

jake just probarbly ragged the threads on his cranks with his ANGLE GRINDER!

just shagged the threads a bit, making it hard to turn on?

why has this been overlooked!

Will

[Walleee]

jake just probarbly ragged the threads on his cranks with his ANGLE GRINDER!

just shagged the threads a bit, making it hard to turn on?

why has this been overlooked!

Will

Cos if I had, i'd have mentioned it?

The thread's on the crank's were fine, no more damaged than those on my rear hub when I grindered a 12t cog off, and fitting the new one was a breeze as it just screwed on. All the grinding does is remove some of the height of the threads.....

I also mentioned that a dicta and ACS would screw on by hand, this was after having ground the original ACS off, so no, it's not my grinding.

Edited July 10, 2006 by jake1516

[Will Arnold]

Cos if I had, i'd have mentioned it?

The thread's on the crank's were fine, no more damaged than those on my rear hub when I grindered a 12t cog off, and fitting the new one was a breeze as it just screwed on. All the grinding does is remove some of the height of the threads.....

I also mentioned that a dicta and ACS would screw on by hand, this was after having ground the original ACS off, so no, it's not my grinding.

u gotta be prettey accurate to not damage the threads when you take and ANGLE GRINDER TO THEM

u actually took the tops off the threads with an ANGLE GRINDER. nutter

i just cant believe your blaming the freewheel, and not your freewheel removal methods lol

[Walleee]

well, when two other freewheel's screw on easily why shouldn't the try-all?

Of course I damaged the threads, it's what happens..........

[Mark W]

I'd rather have to put something on with a bit of strength knowing it's not likely to unscrew the other way,

Not trying to pick faults here or anything, but I've never had a freewheel unscrew off the cranks without the use of at least a vice, a remover tool and a long spanner, so it's not like any other freewheel's not too well held on, if you get me

[Walleee]

In which case, maybe it really is just my cranks, I mean an ACS and a dicta would spin freely on the cranks until they got towards the end of the thread, the try all was put on using something the same as what you describe mark, bit of a bodge of my headset tool and unlike the other's, really needed some pushing.....

[attachmentid=5933]

Whoops, just realised what you were getting at mark, yeh I know, freewheels arn't likely to unscrew at all, everyone know's that, I was just being picky and speaking theoretically....

Edited July 10, 2006 by jake1516

[poopipe]

what rav said about different thread sizes is an interesting theory but I doubt koxx would make a freewheel that doesn't match their own cranks

as far as I know (ie. julien never mentioned anything about his) try-all cranks will take an ACS without the use of a tool to get the bugger on.

methinks the most likely explanation is that jake slightly buggered his threads with the angle grinder.

on the freewheel itself - the second bounce thing sounds perfectly sensible, the difference between an acs and an eno in that respect is fairly dramatic so i can imagine even more EPs would be a bonus - speaking for myself, i'm too shite to take advantage of that sort of thing

[Savage]

The “second bounce” effect is an advantage. I found that for the first 10 mins or so my timing and pedal rotation was a little out due to quicker pick up. With less engagements your front foot falls into the first engagement provided but with this freewheel the fall wasn’t there, I had to adjust a little but soon got used to it. It seems to take a lot on snatch out of accelerating, smoothing out the ride.

Ben.

[Matt Staples]

in 8 years, i don't think I've ever not had trouble fitting something new. ever.

this is trials guys. what most of us do to our bikes is technically rape.

[Walleee]

what rav said about different thread sizes is an interesting theory but I doubt koxx would make a freewheel that doesn't match their own cranks

as far as I know (ie. julien never mentioned anything about his) try-all cranks will take an ACS without the use of a tool to get the bugger on.

methinks the most likely explanation is that jake slightly buggered his threads with the angle grinder.

on the freewheel itself - the second bounce thing sounds perfectly sensible, the difference between an acs and an eno in that respect is fairly dramatic so i can imagine even more EPs would be a bonus - speaking for myself, i'm too shite to take advantage of that sort of thing

People will think it's just me being stubborn, but seriously, I did not bugger the treads to the degree that the freewheel wouldn't screw on. I have a rear hub and screw on cog here in exactly the same way. I had to grind the original 12t cog off, slightly cutting away the top of the thread, and then hit the cog splitting the rest, allowing the cog to unscrew.

If people really think that what I did would bugger thread's to the point where something won't screw on easily, I'll take a video of my new 12t cog spinning freely on the rear hub. I can also show exactley how the thread's would have looked on the crank arm, and anyone with any knowledge of how threads work will see that it wouldn't hinder the screwing action in anyway.

In the same way, I did this with the ACS, and after having taken the original ACS off, I tried screwing on both an ACS and a Dicta, both of which went on easily by hand, had there been a problem with the dicta or ACS screwing on after having ground the first one off, i'd have accepted that I may have buggered the threads, but because they screwed on so easily I don't think I did. Of course what im saying could be all bullshit, I may not have the freewheel, and I might be trying to f**k you all around, Im just trying to let people know of my experiance's.

Once again, The grinder is not the source of the problem's I had.

The “second bounce” effect is an advantage. I found that for the first 10 mins or so my timing and pedal rotation was a little out due to quicker pick up. With less engagements your front foot falls into the first engagement provided but with this freewheel the fall wasn’t there, I had to adjust a little but soon got used to it. It seems to take a lot on snatch out of accelerating, smoothing out the ride.

Ben.

Indeed, I havn't had enough time on the bike since fitting it, but it's going to take some getting used to not having to worry about being engaged.

and to further confuse people...

[Mark W]

I still don't get how people think it's the angle grinding that means it's tight, when two other freewheels fit on fine. Seriously. Not that hard to understand.

[cleanbikes]

After reading this post I thought I'd better give this freewheel a try!

A brand new Monty isis crankarm and a brand new Try-All freewheel from stock ... it screwed on perfectly, first attempt, without any tightness at all.

[Waynio]

i fitted Feeleys on monday and all it needed when i had removed the ACS was a clean of the threads some grease and then i used a chain whip to screw it on, yes it was a little bit tight, or should i say had a tight couple of threads, but after that it screwed on perfect, i think its cos the freewheels are anodised therefore the surface of the threads are a little different to an acs, or maybe it was tighter as the NEW freewheel and an old crank, as my ENO fit onto my try-all cranks like a dream, it "slipped" on.

what ever anyway, people can fit them on, if it was a problem with the freewheel the factory would know about it and they would have been re-called, vincent,vinco,belaey etc etc can fit them to cranks, so i wouldnt see where the problem is, ok Jake found his hard to screw on, BUT his is on now? no problemo.

Waynio..............................

EDIT: what you got to think of, after many freewheels being on a crank, the extraction and installation of new ones, threads get "tired" we have demo bikes at work and pedal threads going back a couple of years were a nightmare!!!! we were going through crank arms on FRS bikes ALL the time, but then we put one pair of pedals on the bikes and let people take them as they were, we didnt have any stripped cranks at all!!!! i know for sure Feeleys crank has had 6/7 freewheels on EASY. the extraction and installation of freewheels does tire threads. im not saying they strip after 1 freewheel, its going to be alot more, iv extracted my eno and my fixed cogs a few times and they screw back on fine, if i did it every week, im sure i would go through a few cranks. CLEAN THREADS and everything will be ok

Edited July 11, 2006 by Waynio

[Walleee]

I still don't get how people think it's the angle grinding that means it's tight, when two other freewheels fit on fine. Seriously. Not that hard to understand.

f**k me mark, im glad someone said it ffs.

[PaRtZ]

what most of us do to our bikes is technically rape.

Speak for yourself mattie boy only jkin.

He has got a point guys. I personally like a challenge such as things not quite fitting. For those of you who have never met my bb you wont understand, but I made that b*stard fit, even though it didn't want to. It was great time, got a lot of fun out of it. FACT

And just because one guy is struggling with it, does't mean you all will. Sh*t happens, just so happens that bad luck has fallen on the first person. Maybe Jake's house is hotter than the koxx workshop which means his crank has expanded too much. Who knows, theres sooo many explanations. When it starts happening to loads of people with monty cranks, THATS when koxx should start pooing themselves, but imo that wont happen.

Good to hear you've got it on Jake. Just need to comment on the performance now

[Walleee]

Exactley, there are a number of differant reasons indeed, my cranks are fairly old, which might have something to do with it.

Anyway, I want to hear of other people's experiance's with it.

[Will Arnold]

this better be good

[mods]

how many peoplehave actually had problems gettin these freewheels on, i want to buy one but this thread is putting me off.. Is this just something that has esculated out of control or is there a genuin fault and they do not fit on most cranks arms?

[Hobnobs]

This is TF, obviously it couldnt be a genuine problem.

Jake just had a bit of difficulty, but cleanbikes man said its fine.

[Mark W]

This is TF, obviously it couldnt be a genuine problem.

Jake just had a bit of difficulty, but cleanbikes man said its fine.

Wires: Crossed?

[merseytrial]

So the treads on mine just may be a little stiff!? Ill try it again after a good wire brush and ill try and get hold of a tap too. I just hope I can find it because I left it marks house and hes moved now. I just hope his beatch hasnt frown it away.

[Will Arnold]

okay, got mine, do i use the little spacer or not? using the spacer seems silly to me because it means the 'it'll stay tight because its up against the crank arm' theory goes out of the window 'because the spacer allows the lockring to be as free as it is on the non crank arm side...

also i gotta get the old freewheel of my cranks before i go anywhere...

[Mark W]

You'll probably need to use it 'cos it sounds like the end of the tabs may be stopping the freewheel from butting up against the cranks, if I've read it right? So if you don't put it in there'll be a little gap anyway, so having the spacer there is better. It's still going to be butted up against the crank arm basically anyway. If you think of how tight a freewheel gets, if there's a spacer there it won't move... I had to do it with the proto Tensile and it did no harm, anyway