foxinsocks
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Posts posted by foxinsocks
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Awesome, thanks guys/
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I've tried google, but to no avail... (got very contradicting results), so... does anyone know the geometry of the 05 Echo control?
(specifically BB rise. is there any chance it is +0mm?!)
Thanks
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Well, i decided to think a bit outside the box and did a short test with a very short AM/DH stem - Funn 45mm (instead of the taller and longer 120 17deg trialtech i had).
So much easier to lift the front wheel. Bunnyhops much quicker, can actually pull a decent manual (though modulation on a tar covered rim with maggies is not the finest:)
I know that from a trials perspective it looks like shit, and if i were any good i'd feel that it messed up most of my leverage on the front wheel, but it feels much more natural than i expected. I think i'll keep this setup for a while and see how it works out. In the meantime i got my eye on an older Echo control...
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I'd go with Maguras. Not many people stick with trials after they bust a tailbone once or twice...
In terms of hype - Trialskings --> Ryan leech + Martin Ashton --> Danny Mac + Chris Akrigg (Ryan and Chris deserve an honorable mention at least)
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I just found some hens teeth, so fulfilling this request should be next on the list.
Hen's teeth... that could be a proper name for a frame.
These were more prone to breaking that the Planet-X's!
Hateful geo too.
Short control 04/5? These were genuinely bomb proof, sell for like £50 second hand and have a geometry within your specification. ~1065WB, 71.5 deg HA, 375 CS and +10-20BB. They also had a built in brake booster, CNCed BB yolks (05 onwards) and%
Also, I think Danny Mac had one at some point, so can't be too bad for street...
There were also made from an Aluminium known as U6, basically made them THE SHIT.
Not a new frame by any means, but they do sound like a good option indeed. A friend of mine offered to sell me his, but he busted them almost beyond recognition so i dont think they'll hold for much longer
I also have the option to trade frames with a friend who has a BR Raven 4.0. i know, its doesnt really fit my genera description but maybe its just short enough to suit my needs. Any insight on those? (were they also prone to break/crack/melt/spontaneously combust? )
Thanks
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wouldn't a very easy and cheap route be to try and use less pressure in the tires? i find that with less pressure everything's more mellow and bouncy. should be easier on your joints too.
maybe try and find a a tire / rim set up that lets you use very low pressure instead of changing the frame?
I've got pretty wide rims at the moment. forgot the exact width, but pretty much as wide as i can go. its not just a matter of tire pressure. I want a bike that i can bunnyhop and manual a bit easier. With such a large frame, and me not being the most flexible person, i can't manual that bike if you put a gun to my head. Yes, if i train 5 times a week i'll probably get it eventually... but still every move takes a lot more commitment and effort.
What about something like an orange zero? Might be cheaper and easier to come by. No idea what they are like for trials but seen a few built up that way and look strong enough
From the specs i've seen its simply way too short, and the geometry looks even more ridiculous compared to the Zebdi.
I think you need to bear in mind that JD was probably referring to 'street' as in a bike like an Arcade, rather than 'street' as in an NS Bikes <insert product name here>.
The only frame I can think of off the top of my head that would be more suitable would be something like a Because Street 26" frame, but as with most frames they're going to be pretty hard to come by second hand unfortunately.
Yeah, the "because" were also in my head for a while but they're hard to come by. See, thats the funny thing, everyone keeps saying that there are many options out there, but nobody can name anything specific. something like the zebdi's just a bit more modern i guess... (Perhaps i should just find some welder dude in china that can fabricate something for me out of thin air (A) )
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Unfortunately you're arguing a point that is 100% wrong. I understand why, because about 5 years ago I was doing exactly the same. Until you ride a more modern street bike, you'll continue being stubborn. Then one day you'll realise you wasted time and money on something that wasn't up to the job.
I've tried plenty of modern street bikes, and they were all pretty horrible at trials. Ridden several modern pure trials frames too, but that's not really what i'm after anyway.
Seriously though, if i'm that wrong, could you please give me a couple of specific models to check out? (except for Inspired). That's the whole point of this thread basically... getting some good options.
A frame that is:
1. reasonably priced and not too rare in 2nd hand classifieds
2. Has decent trials performance (strictly urban stuff, no natural or comp trials), but still balanced, not overly difficult to bunnyhop/manual/spin. And can even be taken to the occasional pumptrack for a workout (cuz that will just be funny on a pure trials frame)
3. speaking in numbers (roughly) : WB 1035-1070, Chainstay 380-390 , head angle 73-71deg. BB rise 10-30mm.
4. Could possibly go well with a short (60-80mm) fork up front. This is not a must, though.
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Frames like that were used because there was no other choice. They stopped production a decade ago on frames that regularly snapped and cracked and now the aluminium is a minimum age of a decade old, it will be shit. Get the hex, you will enjoy it 10 times more, it won't die beneath you, looks better and you can run modern brakes.
they world of trials has come on laps and bounds in the last 10 years, make the most of that knowledge the manufacturers have learnt and get a modern bike.
OR
Look at older frames with decent geometry made from steel as they can atleast be modified and repaired if necessary.
I hear what you're saying and you made some truly valid points. I'm sure the Hex has many advantages, but it's out of my budget at the moment, new or used (or any other inspired for that matter
)For the amount of trials riding i get to do, and the shitloads of money i regularly spend just servicing my XC and Trail bikes, i can't justify spending that much. Maybe at some point in the future if i get to ride much more and i can justify totally new rig.
Also, as good/better as the newer frames are, it doesn't mean the older ones were bad. For my skill set, they're probably more than enough. Yeah, pure trials sure have evolved a huge deal over the years, even until recently. however, In the world of street-trials, i truly don't see many other valid options out there. The only name that people keep muttering is "inspired", nothing else. That, and a few knockoffs here and there which are seriously hard to come by. Sadly, that leaves the PlanetX on the table... as ridiculous as that sounds. Most available modern street bikes go with a much more "dirt-jump" geometry which is even worse for trials. Of course, i'll be happy to hear that there are many alternatives that i missed (26" only)...
what worries me more is what you said about PX's cracking... first time i've heard that (granted i dont hang around in trials forums that much). my older jackflash took a quite a beating and the tubes felt insanely strong. But thanks for the heads up!
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I think he was implying that those frames aren't good for trials so you will actually be making things more difficult
I know they're not as intended for trials as the Toxsin, and thats exactly what i'm after. something that i can bunnyhop and manual easier, but still pedal kick and gap a bit...
(i tried manualling my Toxsin the other day and almost popped my shoulders out trying to get it up
But are they THAT bad to deserve a lol...?
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lol
Hmm... whats so lolish...? am i wrong there?
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Thanks, but i actually got some family visiting in the UK, so i wasn't looking for any shipping to begin with. It is certainly cheaper than what it was 4 years ago. i remember trying to oreder a handlebar from Tarty, and i think the shipping alone was £30-40.
I think i'll eventually go for a decent condition Jack Flash again. set it up with 80-100mm fork, or even a rigid one, and all other parts from the Toxsin.
I tried doing some trials on an Octane One Zircus just last night. with 15mm bb drop (with a 130mm fork), it felt pretty horrible for trials. I think a Zebdi / JackFlash is as "streetish" as i'm willing to go. They're still very capable for trials, while not feeling like a dj/street bike.
Tarty bikes says £93 but dunno if they will sting you for import tax your end?
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Certainly cheaper than plane tickets and the like...
The bikes i picked i believe are relevant to your interests too? -
Have you tried shipping through fedex they don't seem to be that pricey to Israel?
Murga - Thanks for the advice. i haven't even checked FedEx this time (or any other service). i did quite an extensive research about shipping 3 years ago when i got the toxsin. i dont remember which service i used eventually, but even the cheapest one was quite painfully expensive. I got other ways of picking it up from someone... probably than just dumping money on bogus charges and freights costs
(funny thing is, it would've actually cost me less to buy a plane ticket to the UK and back, plus a night's accommodation, than it was to ship the whole bike here...)
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I have a zebdi for sale if you want one
PM'd you
Have you checked the price of the Element frame new wherever you are? Over here they were quite a bit cheaper than the Hex frames were, so they might be more within your budget possibly.
Mark, i'm from Israel. Getting stuff shipped here can be insanely expensive. When i bought the Toxsin from the UK i ended up paying more in freight costs than i paid for the bike itself... (quote i got from some parcel service: "apparently it will cost us less to ship it to the moon and back, than to ship it to Israel...".
So i'm looking for something used in the UK, which i can bring back home with me when i visit or with a friend...
There are no local Inspired dealers (MTB scene is INSANE here, but trials... not so much)
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And assuming the inspired is out of my budget...?
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Thanks. The inspired does seem like the obvious choice.... unfortunate that used inspired frames at a decent price are just so damn hard to come by
I think i'll spend a week or two looking for one that fits my budget, and if i can't i'll just go for a Zebdi/Giant/Norco.
The STP / Zircus / DMR type frames will probably feel like crap for pedal kicks and such.
i saw a used Orange Zero for a decent price - how well do those ride? they seem awfully short.
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Well, i'll rephrase i guess... perhaps "forgiving" is not the right word.
admittedly the Toxsin is not as "extreme" as some more modern frames, but its still much more trials-oriented than most options i mentioned above (even the zebdi or the Zero, let alone STP and the likes).
Its also a very long bike (Chainstay 385mm and WB around 1090 if i'm not mistaken). Good for big committed trials moves (of which i dont do much), bad and energy consuming for general fooling around.
I reckon it will be awesome for someone who practices "pure" trials on a regular basis. But for someone who spends most his time riding XC/AM and has time for a trials session once
every 2 weeks (at best), has fractured both his wrists in the past (hence my preference for some form of suspension), its a bit too much to get used to every time i take it out. So i'm looking for something smaller and more nimble, with a more streety orientation (more manuals, bunnyhops, 180's...), but still good for trials.
Assuming i insist on swapping a frame - which of the above options would you recommend? any other options to consider? (offers are welcome!)
would any of those options feel really bad for the type of riding i described?
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here's a photo of the Toxsin...
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A couple of years ago when i wanted to step up my game i got me a proper dedicated trials bike (a Toxsin II) to replace my old heavy Planet X Jackflash.
Unfortunately, i hardly get to ride much trials since, so every couple of months when i take the toxsin for a spin it feels very harsh and quite awkward to get re-accustomed to.
So now i'm looking to going back a notch, and trying to build something that is a little shorter, more forgiving and closer to a natural mountain-bike (an "urban trials" bike if you wanna call it that...)
I've got a couple of directions:
1. find some street frame (Giant STP , Transition BLT , DMR Sideckick, Octane One Zircus), one that is not too DJ oriented, and spec it with some trialsy parts and 80-100mm fork.
2. Go for some oldschool frame such as a Zebdi, a Giant Trials team, Orange zero... build it rigid or with a 80-100mm fork and the rest of the parts from my toxsin. Those frames always look more neutral to me. i wonder how crappy they would feel compared to the toxsin.3. Lurk in the shadows and wait for some Norco moment / Manifesto frame to pop up. (any similar frames i need to consider? that go well with a short travel fork)
4. Overstretch my budget and try to get some used inpired hex
5. shut up and just ride my toxsin more until i get used to it
Would really appreciate some advice from more experienced folks here. I don't live in Europe, so getting a trials frame shipped all the way here is quite a long and expensive process, so i only get one chance
(when i bought the toxsin, i ended up paying more in freight costs than i paid for the bike itself :/ ) -
a short video i shot with friends some time ago. Not trials, but i'm hoping it'll still entertain some folks here...
unfortunately we had to cut our shooting day short when one of the guys crashed, but at least we got it on camera
Enjoy.
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Hmmm... Any idea i can find some?
My Japanese ain't what it used to be.
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Weird question, but - does anyone know any trials riders from Japan?
I'm gonna be spending a whole lot of time working there, so i thought maybe i'd hook up with some of the locals.
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Im curious - which software do u use to edit the slow motion stuff?
I usually edit vids on the iMovie. It makes nice clips rather quickly, but falls short when it comes to video quality.
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Really enjoyed it. No fancy photography or editing, just good ridin'. I know a video's nice when i can concentrate afterwards and just wanna wanna go out and ride:)
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Gotcha. But mineral oil would do all those things too, wouldn't it?
Not sure whats in there now (water/oil). depends what the previous owner put in there. if its already filled with oil, i think i'll skip the pleasure of rising it out and using water. i've heard too many people saying it makes their pistons stick.
Anyway - how about that hose? can i use something other than magura?
Trying to build a more "forgiving" trials rig...
in Trials Chat
Posted
Well, for the record - i ended up buying an old Echo Control frame from someone, in real good condition.
Currently set up with my long Toxsin fork (435mm axle to crown). Wheelbase 1070, BB rise +20-25. Initial impression - MUCH easier to handle and pull up, but still a trials rig by all means. can't wait to take it out for a proper ride.