Tim/Trialsin USA
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Posts posted by Tim/Trialsin USA
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This might seem weird, but I'm looking for tubes with a fully threaded Schrader valve, if such a thing exists, does anyone know where to get them from?
I know you asked about 20", but just in case you meant rear mod (19"). These things rock. Thicker than normal bicycle tube, but not gnarly thick like you would think of old school motorcycle tube. Exactly the right size (no over inflating 20" BMX tubes). Metal threaded valve with lock down nut. Think www.trialsin.com has some.......... but that is a long way away to order a tube!
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Aside from the dimensional aspect, keep in mind you are going to need to find something that does not stretch/expand until at least 800psi.
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Even after bleeding god knows how many b'jillions of Maguras in the past 13 years, it still does not come out perfect every time.
Here is a hint (not sure it is on the Magura manual or not). If you bled it correctly, more than likely most (if not all) the air causing the problem, is in the lever (master cylinder). To fix this without rebleeding for the 10th time:
1. Stand bike up. Flick lever a bunch of times (moves air further toward bleed screw).
2. Lay bike down so that brake in questions lever is closest to the ground (lever blade pointing toward ground, bleed bolt pointing toward sky).
3. Undo bleed bolt and take it out. If you look down, more than likely the oil it not right up to the top. Pull the lever blade (SLOWLY! lest you want an eyeful of Magura oil) until the oil is forced to the top of the hole.
4. Slowly release lever and drip oil in hole (keeping oil level with top). When lever is all the way released (and oil filling hole all the way to top).
5. Replace bleed bolt
6. Go ride.
On really bad days it can take a couple times of this (remember to flick lever in between, helps pull air to the top). I can tell you it is a hell of allot faster than complete re-bleed.
*substitute the word oil for water, in your case.
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Of course.
Tim - I assume you have to hand:
1. A set of what I called 'proper' CRM pads with rounded corners and chamfered centre section, which feel very 'waxy' to touch, a slight greying around their sides, some small air bubbles on the outside corners where they attach to the backings, have had their top face ground away to make it flat, have extremely fast rebound and are fitted into official Magura backings:
2. A set of the 'new' CRMs with square corners and no centre chamfer, a very consistent yellow colour throughout, no air bubbles, with a more rubbery feel than the above pads, exhibit a slower rebound and from which the corners can be bitten off:
Please compare these and hopefully you can see my point. I know you are more than capable of realising the pads are different if you have both sets in front of you - I don't think of myself as a brake pad expert and haven't had years of experience making them, but the difference to me (and others who have used both pads too, it seems) is clear. This is not an attack on you, I just hope you can see the differences between them because I think it may be possible that you are getting item 2's compound when you believe you are paying for and receiving item 1's compound?
Adam,
Yes they look different. In fact, over the years if you look closely there are differences every few years. Molds wear out, so new ones are machined. We find a better adhesive, we use that. When a more consistent pour is obtained, there are less/no air bubbles. These points were valid in '02 as they are now. The pads are not made by automation and come with variances in assembly as you would find with any hand produced item.
As I said, the compound itself has been the same since '99. I will check and see if there were any pour variances, but held pretty tight what worked. If there is not a problem, we don't change it.
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Dictionary definition of arrogant:
Ahem.
Arrogance is, the stating the fact part....or not being bated into calling names? I plead guilty not being able to make the connection.
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Are you always so arrogant ?
Arrogant?
Let's see.
Stating a fact?
OR
Not being bated into calling someone a liar?
Dictionary definition of arrogant:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogant
I really don't see what one has to do with the other.
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Tim are you saying Adam, myself and Rob are lying about the Plazmatic pads bought from Fred Savage?
Do you acknowledge we wanted CRMs, went to a UK distributor, bought some pads labelled as Plazmatic CRMs and found them to be very badly performing and not the same as the original compound?
The compound is (and can only be because it is proprietary) made by one manufacturer in the USA..... it is a simple fact that is starting to sound like a broken record. As for your interpretation via leading question, please...that stunt only works in soap opera court room scenes.
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Excerpts from some of my emails with TNN Engineering regarding the yellow pads pictured in my previous post:
Weird.
Nothing weird about it. It is usually what happens when information is passed third hand....... via edited snippets on forums. TNN has never procured, distributed or otherwise had anything to do with CRM pads to date. I think he made some assumptions that were incorrect. Chris and I have had complete control of compounds since day one. It originates in the USA. When you want fact, it is usually best to go to the source.
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Lol.
So what are these?
I'm quite sure they aren't 'proper' (I use that term as I can't think of a better word) CRM material, the set I have here are so soft and un-resilient that I can bite chunks out of them.
And what were the Limited Edition ones made of?
At the risk of being repetitive:
"1. The compound manufactured for all CRMs is the same, as it has been since '99.
2. Chris Russ is responsible for the development of the compound. A highly talented individual that I have the most respect for, and continue to have personal relationship. However, there has only ever been one actual manufacturer of the compound. No one else makes it...before, now or in the future....it is proprietary."
This includes special edition pads.
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Yes. I believe the 'new CRMs' are not anything like the 'proper' CRMs.
Just a break to supplant guess work, divining, gossip and innuendo with fact (god forbid).
1. The compound manufactured for all CRMs is the same, as it has been since '99.
2. Chris Russ is responsible for the development of the compound. A highly talented individual that I have the most respect for, and continue to have personal relationship. However, there has only ever been one actual manufacturer of the compound. No one else makes it...before, now or in the future....it is proprietary.
3. The original/first Plazmatic brake pads were made in the USA, the Citric Acid pads.
4. The founder of Plazmatic is me. '93, rim coatings.
Now back to the cauldron of speculation and misinformation that are quite often forums.
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Only issue I had with CRMs was that, at one stage, I had 13 pads that were out of their backings because they just weren't glued in all that well, which was disappointing for a pad of that price.
There was a couple batches where the glue was an issue. For those that made the effort to contact, I replaced them without question. If I had anymore, I would mail them to you......... sorry about that.
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I am not a fan of the 'O ring' mounting on any CNC backings, but surely the issues you found with the Plaz backings was down to their shape, not the fact they were mounted with an O ring?
Yes, it was not the "O" ring itself that was the problem..........sort of.
The "O" ring does not really absorb that much force as it is pretty small. Using an "O" ring that is larger to try and compensate only gets you a pad that mushes around too much. The mounting area needs to have sufficient flexibility to diffuse forces from the nipple. The trick of course is that the pad at the same time remain well enough connected to the lever for accurate feedback/feel.
I admit, that of the thousands of CRs we made, there really were not that many that had slave cylinder issues. The above concern really only reared its head when the brakes were set up so the slave cylinder had to really extend itself out before pad hit rim.
Woah woah woah Adam, slow down, you're forgetting Tim is always right!Always right?.... most certainly not. I am not sure in this instance relating bits of historical observation has much to do with self ascribed omnipotence.
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The side in which you place the brakes should hardly make a difference. Unlike other cycling disciplines, the brake needs to function in both directions in trials. The only trick might be clearance for a booster. I know the world has gone weight weenie....but boosters do make a difference.
Only one comment on the cranks. Please suck up the extra cost and make them out of 7075.
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The finish of the backing is, ultimately, unrelated to braking performance. Nice to see sexy anodizing, but largely a vanity issue.
Softness of pad material is not a good indicator of wear life.
What does concern me is the type of mounting. It looks like a rubber grommet just inside. While seemingly a simple and practical way of dealing with mounting....... we found (Plazmatic CR pads,circa '99) that the stresses put on the slave nipple when pads were not adjusted to be close to the rim were........well, negetive in effect...........broke the nipples. And I hate it when my nipples are broken.
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thinking about getting some trialtech rims for crimbo but not sure on their strength. are they strong ? or known to flat spot ?
please help
The biggest contributor to rim strength is actually the build. Years ago Monty had rims made by Akront. They were very poor quality and material. So poor, that when new I could actually fit 3 or 4 pieces of paper in the seam. As if that were not enough, the nipple holes were visibly varying distances apart! However, most of the wheels on the X-Lites were quite strong.... someone at the factory actually took the time to make sure tension was high and even. Much nicer to start with a good quality rim, but at the end of the day the proper and even spoke tension is the source of wheel strength.
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I'd normally reccomend Plaz CRMs for smooth rims, but I've had about 4 pairs recently and they've been shocking.
I believe they've changed their pad material, and it really doesn't work for me.
Must be something else throwing things off, as the formula has not changed since 1999.
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Once again, grow the f**k up.
No one was slating the company, just said that they had heard of a lot snapping, maybe people don't feel the need to bitch about a snapped sprocket because at the end of the day it's a £20 disposable item, not as if it's a £500 frame.
Now there is a timely reply.
So, I should not correct myth? Just let negetive perception stand? I suggest you coach someone elses business into the ground.
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Even after bleeding god knows how many b'jillions of Maguras in the past 13 years, it still does not come out perfect every time.
Here is a hint (not sure it is on the Magura manual or not). If you bled it correctly, more than likely most (if not all) the air causing the problem, is in the lever (master cylinder). To fix this without rebleeding for the 10th time:
1. Stand bike up. Flick lever a bunch of times (moves air further toward bleed screw).
2. Lay bike down so that brake in questions lever is closest to the ground (lever blade pointing toward ground, bleed bolt pointing toward sky).
3. Undo bleed bolt and take it out. If you look down, more than likely the oil it not right up to the top. Pull the lever blade (SLOWLY! lest you want an eyeful of Magura oil) until the oil is forced to the top of the hole.
4. Slowly release lever and drip oil in hole (keeping oil level with top). When lever is all the way released (and oil filling hole all the way to top).
5. Replace bleed bolt
6. Go ride.
On really bad days it can take a couple times of this (remember to flick lever in between). I can tell you it is a hell of allot faster than complete re-bleed.
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I haven't said 'wobble' once. Or 'mangled'. I simply stated that the BB was likely to stretch the crank spline and cause creaking. That's not wobble, or dangerous, or even a problem really- just a niggle. Tim you're just digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole that was never a hole to start with.
This is hilarious. Nearly as much fun as a barrel of monkeys! ha, ha, ha
You are right, the exact objective, non product disparaging language was "From the looks of the Moe BB it will royally rape your cranks the first time you put them on making them as saggy as a saggy thing."
Now we are defining niggle from wobble or movement or failure. I remember when President Clinton responded "depends what the meaning of "is" is". Round and round we go where we stop nobody knows.
Good fun guys, I'll leave you all for the last word. Because we all know if you speak last you are right.
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Apart from the clinically retarded, I'd imagine most people would've replaced the faulty part long before it got wobbly enough to cause any issue like that, and I doubt Dave was implying that there was a safety risk involved, unlike the person who made the "Is it safe?" comment about the other product. It seems strange you're refering to 'wiggling in semantics' or whatever it was you used considering that's precisely, 100% what you're doing. Dave said it leads to cranks wobbling a bit, someone else directly questioned the safety of another product. There is a difference there, and there's literally no way you can't see that.
Wobbly parts are or are not a safety issue? The rest is quite simple, "mangled" crank statements impune the reputation of the product at which is was directed. You are correct, there is literally no way you can't see that.
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There was no hint at any kind of accelerated failure of anything. The worst that could happen (as discussed earlier) is saggy crank splines leading to creaking. Pretty sure there is no way what's been described could cause any kind of reduction in strength or longevity.
My issues have been with aluminium stopper rings which tend to crush (as discussed earlier) and deform which for one means the crank spline becomes damaged leading to creaking but also means that you often can't get the BB tool over the deformed ring which just annoys me.
My question with the Moe BB was brought about because of the picture that you posted caught my attention because firstly the stopper ring's aluminium and also that the stopper ring wouldn't stop the deformation of the crank spline even when new.
Cool, so what you are saying is that while riding a skinny or making a very technical gap.....wobbly parts would not increase the potential for falling and potential injury? Wiggling about in semantics because of a refusal to own up to comments is really a bit much. I can admit to occasionally straying over the line and going over the top....... can anyone else?
Adam, you are watching this thread. Any words of wisdom as to why people should not buy the other BBs from you? Maybe some sort of warning stickers?
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Dave was raising an issue he's had in the past.
That is different to a rival company insinuating that a product is dangerous to use. Cranks that allegedly get mangled aren't quite the same as suggesting that a part could injure you if you run it.
Apparently because suggesting mangled cranks which would lead to accelerated failure would not have any consequence to safety?
Touche' as it relates to comments made on an old thread.
In fact the issue is so pervasive that there are no threads started about it. There might be an odd BB out there that passed by quality control (for any manufacturer), of this I am not suggesting Dave did not find one or a couple.
The points have been made. Now we are past discussion of theory into semantics. I am pretty sure the public can make up their minds at this point with out further "help" from us.
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On the plus side, at least Dave wasn't dropping the classic "But are they safe?" line that certain others have used in the past...
No, it was your cranks will be mangled if you use a MOE BB. And that differs how?
Touche'! ha, ha, ha
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My FSAs had that stopper that stopped the cranks from just mashing onto the end of the splines, I'm pretty sure?
Yes, of course they did. Some of the models have the ring begin at the end of the spline and some before the end of the spline. I agree, too far back and it would be useless. However, since the leading edge cranks (specially soft ones made from 6061) that goes toward ring/stopper..... the thin corners quickly mold themselves to the end of the spline upon first installation.
Fascinating discussion we are having on an issue that is....well, as stated above....a non issue. Theoretical failures of others are an interesting way to market.
What Bottom Brackets Are Folk Using These Days?
in Trials Chat
Posted · Edited by Tim/Trialsin USA
Meta/Trialtech/MOE/Echo (sure there is at least one or two more) = First. Descent BBs for the money, which is why there are so many relabels.