thanks for the advice lads, i'll email them now i've only joined this forum 2 days ago, and already , i can see it's one of the best on the 'net with plenty of clued up people on adamtrials what other frame would you reccomend for that money, i'm pretty new to riding trials, and bought an onza about a month ago, but now a fancy something a bit better, money is no object though i just need the best bike for my needs thanks, james