Cheers guys ill give the pads a try without the grind n see how things go and if they dont work ill get some heatsink pads the ltd ones n if that dont work ill have tears coming down my eyes when i grind off the lovely colour of the echo 2007 rims. but stil wat the hell tis al gunna be gd in the end especially with the hope pro 2 hub im getting. whoop whoop. Also any one know how long the life of the hope pro 2 hub is without grease cos i might try it if it aint loud enough. P.S. cheers al for getting me all bike stuff n all n all the help with spraying our frame. u can get the free tee shirt from tarty bikes, lol.