Right seeing as that giant thing (see my other post) is a no go, what now? Has to have a saddle and can be used for skate park and hopping. *Grandad mode* When I started out it was simply, buy a 12.5 gt bike and strip it for the frame, but now days it's so complex. We never had bash guards in my, we made them out of paint tin lids. I already have a T-raptor which rides ok, but its naff looking polished with blue graphics (I snapped the back triangle on the original grey and blue). It was my first and only proper trials frame we are talking four years ago people. I like the Giant, but finding one is the problem. Zebdi once again no longer made and the same with the Orange Zero. Base? Some of you like it, some of you complain it snaps. Anyone got a mad pink one built up they can post a pic of? Anyway is it really that easy to break? I really can't think of any other frame :0( I just got a new set of Fattys, my hope wheels are ready so all I need is a frame. I'm off home now so will be back on in a few hours be good to see if anyone can find or come up with a frame I'll like. Cheers peps