Le @ Tnn Engineering
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Posts posted by Le @ Tnn Engineering
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Hi guys,
So having owned my TNN LGM pads for over a year now, I have been very impressed with their performance when they actually work. However, ever since I first got them, I have been experiencing the same issue: Whenever I clean any dirt or metallicy stuff from the pad surface, the brake performance suffers tremendously, even though the material is completely clean. A couple of weeks back I put a sharp, fresh grind on both rims, and sanded the top layer off grime of the LGMs, thinking that the performance would just bed in over time, but after riding for 20+ hours, the pads are still unable to lock enough for me to even do a small endo or anything similar, despite the brake being setup perfectly with a fresh bleed too. I have tried to add some fizzy drink stuff to the rim (Trialtech SL Square Hole), as this usually does the trick, but it hasn't worked at all this time.
My question is has anyone else experienced similar issues to this with LGMs, and if so, how did you go about solving it? How good is the LGM material as a front brake pad compared to others? Maybe it's time to get some ADM or Belaey refills...
Thanks, Lewis
I totally understand why these threads are started. There is nothing more frustrating then forking out good money and spending your time to achieve the perfect set up after reading countless brake threads. Then when all is well everything turns pear shaped and your brakes stop working. Very painful.
I spend so much time answering emails on this subject and this is what I have found out.
1. If your brake isn't performing all of a sudden regrind. 9/10 times this will fix the issue.
2. If this doesn't work you most likely have a contamination problem. You maybe in denyl about it but it's very likely. As with disc brake the tiniest amount of oil will kill your brake performance. Oil + maguras means this happens more than we would like. A leaking fitting on the slave cylinder or a leaking slave cylinder piston behind the pad will over time will make there way to the braking surface and game over. You'll need new refills and a regrind end of story.
3. If your brake is working and you happy with it. Don't touch it. Besides regrinding and keeping the slave cylinders clean and oil free. Don't change anything.
Keep you grind fresh and you rim/pads contamination free and 99% of you issues will be gone.
Me and Lewis Greenhalgh spent hours trying to right his brake set up tried eveything and nothing worked. What happened is that a small amount of oil from the wheel building process got onto the rim and impregnated into the pad. We sanded the pads down 0.5 mm and still no good. The oil was deep in the pads. Solution new refills and regrind and the brake is still perfect 3 month later.
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It sounds easy but is a little tricky these instructions will help.
Available on TNN fb http://www.facebook.com/pages/TNN-Engineering/115080868529549
Or right here.
#1 Push the star nut down just so the brace is 3mm below the top of the carbon steerer tube.
#2 Undo the stem this will allow the steerer tube to open slightly. Otherwise brace will not slide in.
#3 Wind a bolt into the brace so you can handle it more easily once it's covered in glue.
#4 Be very generous with the epoxy glue application inside the steerer tube and on the outside of the brace. Don't be concerned about excess glue it can be wiped away. It's important to fill the gap between the steerer and brace with epoxy glue.
#5 Allow 12 hrs for glue to fully cure/harden before reassembling bike and riding.
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well as the title says my tnn lgm's have gone to pants i rode shipley on sunday it the rain and all was well came home re built my rear wheel with a brand new trials tech race rim built it ground it and set my brake to the rim and my brake is shocking no bike from the pads and no hold and the peds seems super squishy has anybody had this before and does it mean new pads needed?
Water/dirt,mud can have huge effect on braking. I'm thinking since you've changed you rim you need to give the pads time to re-bed in to the new rim. That would explain the squishy lever feel. Once the pads are contacting the rims 100% the brake should feel solid again.
I get this each time I put on new pads until they have bedded into the rim's shape/angle.
Let me know if you still have any issues.
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What sort of qualitys to the pads have?
Here's what my riders and myself have to say about the blacks. Modulation,Bite and Hold better than the Belaey's and very close to the beastly LGM. Performance consistency is excellent and wear is better than Belaey's.
Here's the TNN compounds in a nut shell.
-LGM street,big moves,Harsh grind,No modulation,Big locking power,wet.
Smooth rim Modulation and holding power. No wet.
-Belaey's street and natural,med grind,modulation,locking power,wet,muddy,dusty. Very consistent compound.
-Blacks I'd say the blacks are Belaey's on steroids. Will be cheaper too.
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Sometimes they can be tight first time you fit them.
What I do is install the brake on bike as normal but o-ring not in the slave cylinder yet. Tighten all the clamps and squeeze your brake the force of the brake pushing the pad onto the rim will get the o-ring on the slave cylinders no worries.
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A well set up vee brake will out perform a magura everyday of the week. Important things are half decent calipers and lever plus a quality cable linear slick is a popular choice. LGV pads and the fresh grind and a booster aren't as important as you'd think.
But here are the downsides.
Cable stretch is very noticeable and the brake is slow to release the rim compared with a magura. But I can live with both. For the unmatchable locking power.
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Sweet. Looks like your legs were just about long enough
How come you're not testing your own forks?
I've ridden the forks for a while and am quite happy with the geo and stiffness. I'm not hard on forks and have test rider who are so they are doing the long term testing. Which leaves me free to try out these carbon forks. Once they break I will be going back to tnn forks.
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John just keeps getting better and better.
Sweet job on the edit Dave especially the last clip.
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Great riding from you and Allan considering the especially windy and wet conditions. Huge bunnyhop too.
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Im guessing some one had hold of him and was helping on that skinny log!?!? after seeing the balance 2 year olds have if he did that solo im quitting!!
You guessed right we just put that skinny line in for fun.
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08 Maggy, Magura 4 finger blade, water bled, Monty Splitter, Trialtech 4 bolt Booster, TNN Mounts modified to do away with cylinder washers, CNC Belaeys, Atomz Rim (single walled), medium grind that is about 8 hours riding old.....but I hear these rims don't hold grinds well.
I used to run a 2 bolt tensile booster with the TNN clamps and a 2 bolt echo booster with tensile offset clamps (with washers) and I've never had noise.
Common factor is the rim
Certain frames make more brake noise than others too. Main thing is if you brake is performing don't stress too much about how loud they are.
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Thanks allot!
If they are viable for replacement, could I have some LGM refills sent out instead?
Sure no problem
I hope mine isn't going to be crap. I've bought some that are partly used but came with brand new refills aswell. Le, what can I do if they aren't performing? Is this a common occurance?
To have your brake performing perfectly and then just stop can't be because of the pads. Something must have happened to stop the pad gripping on the rim. Generally speaking I would think a small amount of contamination. Which could be anything most of the time the rider doesn't even realise.
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You want to get platform pedals with threaded bolts or grub screws. Rather then plain pins. Caged pedals are good but the aluminum cage loses it's shape edge which grip your shoe quickly. After that they go downhill.
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Echo TRs are good but these sound amazing, if its strong this could be THE best trials pedal! What would it weigh in at with a ti axle and alu pins? Out of interest?
A Ti axle (not avail) would take 35g off and alum bolt/pins would take of another 20g 55g total. Final weight 235g. But we decided to only offer the cromoly axle for longevity reasons.
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Did this yesterday.
Another 2 hours and nothing.
Oh no. I hate it when I hear stories like this. We had an incident like this where a tiny bit of oil got on the grind and the pads. We tried everything we could think of and even on a fresh grind no noise no performance. We finally bit the bullet and replaced the refill and BOOM brake was back to normal honk,honk and locking again.
Post your these refills back to me so I can have a look at them. When I get them I'll send you out a replacement set.
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Beleays are great. Get them on a nice, SHARP, medium grind and your onto a winner.
I ran them on my old 06 Python with no booster ( flexxyyyy frame ) and they were still incredible.
They are less grind dependent than LGM's and seem to offer just as much hold.
Work well in the wet to, and the pads don't round off as easily with the chamfered edges.
All round brilliant pad
Well said!
Me and all the local boys agree with the Belaeys been the gun pad. Although head down south and the big names like Brewer and Dickey (who compete at worlds) love LGM. So I guess in the end it's whatever works for you.
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A few extra details about the pedals.
-Large slimline platform body is cnc machined from 6061 aluminum 97mm x 97mm x 12.5mm thick (super thin)
-Cromoly axle for durability
-16 grippy Hi tensile M4 bolts (Bolts are supported by head and cannot be knocked out like the wellgo MG-1 pedal pins/grub screws) can be replaced with ti or alum bolts. Saving about 20g
-Pedal spins on a teflon bush (near crank) and another 3 sealed ball bearings. For smooth and maintenance free use.
Approx price 95 pounds depending on exchange rates at the time. Don't hold me to that price.
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ah cool thats im thinking of doing that, whats it like?
LGM has alot of bite and hold so perfect for rear. Belaey's have some modulation before locking so great on the front and no need for harsh grind.
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any of you know how good tnn belaey is on the front? good or not so good?
I personally run belaey fronts and LGM rear when using dual maguras.
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Big fan of the avid ultimate arms they have bearings instead of bushing. I can't say for sure but in a head to head test with non bearing arms they do "feel" like they perform better.
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Most super glues will do the job fine. Our "loctite" glue is flexible so the adhesion last a bit longer. I know of riders who do not glue their refill in and have not had issues. Although I high recommend glue.
The cavities in the backings are 4mm deep and as long as you don't set up your pads that far away from the rim. It's near impossible for the pads to come out of the backing.
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check the pad reviews section!
(the topic 2 above this one currently)
to be honest, you could get lots of replies and no definative answer...its almost a pointless question in that case, theres just too many influencing factors
1. rims - the type, the grind (harsh/fine?), how well the grind has been applied
2. booster/frame - different levels of stifness effect how well certain pads seem to work, cnc backings?
3. setup - how well its bled? how well its been squared to the rim?
4. maintanance - is the h33 sluggish? lazy slave? recently serviced?
5. personal preference on what a good brake is?
6. how clean the rim/pad is kept - contaminants are one of he biggest influences on a pads performance
7. the batch of material the pad has come from!
those are the sorts of factors that you just dont hear about with other peoples set-ups - so how can you really compare? its why the belaeys have been given both rave (by me too) and awful reviews
some names do crop up repeatedly - lgms/beleays/cousts/heatsinks etc - if youre going to change, id stick with one of the popular ones....its still as much of a risk whether they will perform as well for you as they do for whoever recommends them
This man speaks the truth!!!!
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whatever pad you end up buying a sharp grind is important plus a booster helps too. FYI I'd choose Belaey's in the wet over LGMs.
TNN Booster Still Flexing
in Trials Chat
Posted
Could you please measure how much you brake booster flexes under normal use? 1-2 mm of flex is normal unless your applying more braking force than required under normal riding conditions.
Here's a trick if you want less flex and more solid lever feel. Loosen off the lower bolt on one clamp which holds the booster. Now with needle nose pliers flex the booster outwards 1-1.5mm by squeezing the booster and the clamp. While booster is flexed outward tighten clamp.
What this does is preload the booster so once the brake is applied the bulk of the flex is already preloaded out of the booster. Having said this all boosters flex even ones which weigh twice as much as a TNN.