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Scoox
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Posts posted by Scoox
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Thanks for the info guys, it sort of confirms my suspicions that traditional straight-lines geo is stiffer. I have made up my mind and I am going to go with Echo. I can also get a better price on Echo frames here so it's a no-brainer.
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Clearly we trialsters are very small market... It's a shame because Iove big wheels but with crappy brakes it makes me wanna go want to mods.
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 The differences in tubing between most modern frames is only ever going to be by around 0.4mm or so. It being 'thin' isn't the problem - it being tanked into a rail was.
0.4mm still makes a difference though. Personally I don't mind a few extra grams if it means a stronger bike--safety first. I can always reduce weight by wearing lighter clothing and shoes, or deal with the extra weight by growing some muscle.
IMO weight reductions have already been pushed as far as will go, unless manufacturers start using 7075 aluminium, titanium or other materials. Other than minor geo tweaks, I doubt there will be any new jaw-dropping break-throughs in trials bike design any time soon. However I would like to see small improvements such as Echo's integrated bottom bracket and chain tensioner (well done Echo!!).
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I mean the kind of blister that breaks off and bleeds and hurts like sh*t. The kind of blister that tells you it's time to call it a day.
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Maguras inherently suck. Magura is a company with virtually no competition, so they have no reason to improve their products, although they seem pretty good at f**king them up (e.g. 2011 HS33).
I've run Avid BB7 front and Magura HS33 rear for one whole year on my Echo 24. During that time, the BB7 has been absolutely reliable and has required zero maintenance. By contrast, the rear HS33 requires maintenance every time I ride.
I have read several claims that "a correctly set up Magura brake is hassle-free and set-and-forget". Believe me, those claims are BS:
1) As you pull the wheel back to tighten to tighten the chain you'll also want the pads to follow, which means you'll have to move them, not easy when the steel bolts have bitten into the aluminium 4-boolt slave clamps.
2) You will also have to ensure that your rims are perfectly straight before and during each and every ride so the pads don't rub on the rim when coasting. Disk brakes don't care if the rim is bent, as long as the rotor is straight (which it usually is as it's not supposed to come into contact with anything other than the brake pads).
3) A rear rim brake feels spongy due to seatstay flex. Yes, you can use a brake booster, but unfortunately boosters get in the way when you try to adjust your brake and it becomes a major pain in the ass.
4) The newer Magura brakes make it very difficult to change a broken oil line.
5) A rear rim brake is very hard to adjust compared with a disk brake, especially compared with the BB7.
6) Rim brake pads wear faster.
7) As has been said, Maguras are noisy and have less modulation.
Obviously Maggies do a good job at stopping bikes, that's why they're so popular, but they also suck in more ways than they rock.
My next bike will be a dual-BB7 mod for the perfect zero-maintenance bike. More riding, less messing around with tools.
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I am interested too
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I am looking at rear hubs for my new mod build. I notice the new edition of the Echo TR hub has a 10mm aluminium axle, whereas the previous model had the same axle but made of steel. I am not convinced Echo implemented this change to reduce weight but rather to cut costs. And indeed the new model is about £10 cheaper.
I read elsewhere that a guy had broken two Echo SL rear hub axles. Now if the SL has a 12 mm aluminium axle and it can break, how does the new TR hub design make any sense??
I actually have the new TR hub on my Echo bike, as it came fitted from the factory, and I think it's not good. Although it hasn't broken, the built-in grub screw chain tensioner bites into the axle quite bad. I had to put a bit of steel between the axle and the grub screw to prevent this.
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Being that thin it's no wonder it broke! -
A question to the orignial poster: Do you get blisters on both hands the same, or mainly the one operating the rear brake? And what brake are you using?
Since I got my Maugra HS33 2011 rear brake I get very bad blisters on my right hand (which in my case is the hand that operates the rear brake) no matter how hard I try to MTFU. So I think the 2011 lever design is
a pile of shitnot as ergonomic as previous models. And it's also a pile of shit.-
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I've been running my 2011 HS33 on water for about a year and I've had very crappy results. Although the brake feels great immediately after bleeding, it leaks slowly over time, and I have to re-bleed quite regularly which is a real PITA. Not sure if this is specific to my brake or the 2011 model or all water-bled HS33 brakes, but with so many people running water bleeds it makes me wonder.
By the way, I use a 50-50 mixture of anti-freeze and tap water.
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I am considering getting a mod and can't decide between the Echo Mark II, which has straight tubing throughout, and the Neon Bow 2012, which has curved top and down tubes.
My gut tells me that the Echo will be stiffer, because a straight tube is the most efficient way to transfer axial forces, although I prefer the look of the Neon frame.
Has anyone ridden either or both of these frames? Thanx
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My comment will be as valid 20 years later as it is today, just as Newton's F=ma is. So perhaps you gentlemen should be out riding your bikes instead of searching the forum for thread bumps to point out. Just saying...
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If this is true then why arn't pads made as small as possible? According to what you've said you could have a pad the same size as a 5p coin, or a pad thats a couple of inches long and they'll have an idendical preformance
Surely the friction from the bigger surface area plays a part in all of this?
Pad size is a trade-off between weight and practicality. Performance wise pad size does not make any difference, as rupintart explained.
System with small brake pads (BB5):
Pros: Lighter, because pads are smaller and rotor braking area can be reduced to match the smaller pads.
Cons: Pads get hotter becasue the same amount of energy needs to be absorbed by a smaller pad; pads wear faster becasue there is less material in them; narrower rotor may be easier to bend/damage. Will require more frequent adjustments.
System with large brake pads (BB7):
Pros: Run cooler, don't wear as fast and rotors may be stiffer due to larger braking area. Good for a low-maintainance brake, durable brake.
Cons: Heavier.
In addition the BB7 is easier to adjust. If you are looking for something light then get the BB5, if you want convenience get the BB7. A mate runs BB5s front and rear on his 24" trials bike and they are sharp as hell, makes me hate my HS33s which constantly require tweaking and tedious maintainance. My next bike will defo run Avids throughout.
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What exactly is the springy retainer thing on the slave? Is it a piece of elastic material? I am sure it works but it looks like an afterthough. Since the slave pistons can be pulled out I imagine you need somthing to whole the slaves together while bleeding, and that's where the retainer comes in.
Otherwise I think this brake is a much better design than all other hydros. Why? because with normal hydros you need to apply undue compressive force to the slave in order to stop it slipping out away from the rim because it is held in place by means of friction. With the CSC brake you just need a couple of little retaining screws to stop the slave spinning. When you apply the brake the forces invovled will hardly cause the slave to rotate , so the retaining screws don't have to be big to do their job. This is very clever in my opinion.
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I've been using a Because 150x30° stem for quite a while with 4 x Echo headset spacers and Echo riser bars on my 24-inch Echo, just to see the effect of very high bars. Yesterday I installed a 125x25° stem with just one headset spacer, same bars, and went for a ride. A bit scary with about 4cm of extra steerer tube sticking out above the stem--felt like riding with a knife attached to the stem.
Anyway, here are my observations. The high set-up makes it really easy to bunnyhop and trackstands are very comfortable and stable because you don't need to be all hunched up. However yesterday when I tried the lower set-up it was a revelation on the back wheel. Hopping on the back wheel suddenly became less tiring because the whole bike was much closer to my body, which means you don't need to lean back so much to balance on the back wheel. A side effect of this is that the rear brake is less likely to slip and if it does and you start falling back you have more time to react and hopefully land on your feet. It also made hopping up stairs forward (rather than side-ways or at an angle) a lot easier. Gapping distances also improved significantly and felt more accurate.
So if you are doing a lot of stuff on the rear wheel I definitely recommend a shorter and lower stem. A good all rounder for a 24 inch bike would be a 150x30° stem without any spacers, which is what I am using now.
Riser vs flat bars makes no difference to me in terms of feel, in fact you can achieve the same set-up with either using the right combination of stem-bars-spacers. However, riser bars provide better chest clearance so it's harder to hit your chest on the handlebar clamp, which is the reason why I prefer riser bars.
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Oh wow I didn't realise. Nice gravedig scoox.
LOL You walked straight into the grave and didn't even realise. Thanks for the praise anyway.
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Topic is from April...
Just curious, have you Tarty guys already contacted Echo about this quality issue? As Echo's biggest retailer your voice will surely be heard and you could suggest the need for tighter tolerances, which of course would be good for everyone! Thanks
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Echo really need to get their ass in gear. Their previous edition of the SL rim was very nice and they've made some fine stuff in the past, so obviously they are perfectly capable of making quality parts if they really want to. I have personally experienced similar problems with Echo's products in the past, and I am surprised by the lack of attention to detail, tolerances and quality. A lot of us trials riders are tech-minded and this kind of omissions usually stand out like a sore thumb.
A rim like the one the OP bought is more likely to fail than a rim where the nipple holes are equidistant from the edges. In my rear Echo TR rim the weight-saving holes are not in the middle either.
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Bleeding/bath-bleeding my 2011 maggies is not that hard, I've bath bled mine a couple times and thought it was pretty easy, in fact easier than the older models because I could detach the lever from the handlebars without having to remove the grip.
I still don't think Magura brakes are particularly high-quality products when compared to, say, Hope brakes. I wonder why Hope don't enter the rim brake market, they surely could come up with something far better than the current offerings and kick everybody else's ass.
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Looks like a very clever design. I agree a simple closed system would be more suitable for a rim brake. Interestingly, I can see on Taobao.com that a couple of retailers are already selling the CSC rim brake and the master in the photo looks like a closed system:
That's the only picture I found with that type of lever. The Taobao page can be found here, I don't know if it's accessible outside China though.
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I'll see if I can get some TNN greens locally... postage to China alone costs nearly as much as the pads. But I still think there's something wrong with my set-up. A lot of riders use Echo or Zhi pads here without problems.
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I run a medium grind and Echo pads which are quite soft. The pads sit perfectly square to the rim; i actually bought a set of Echo SL clamps because my frame's 4-bolt mounts weren't perfectly square and the original TR clamps do not allow for angular adjustments). Since other riders report good performance and I hope to get this sorted, I am sure there's something wrong with my set-up or my brake, so I'll re-bleed tomorrow and see how I get on.
The I don't trust the brake when I hop forward towards an edge for fear of it slipping OFF the edge--once the rear tyre is in mid-air no matter how hard you brake you are guaranteed a sore bum for a week.. This was never a problem with my old HS33 which I used regular for 4 years, but that bike is now in Spain and i am in China...
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Can't decide? Get a 24" echo trial! Also this video will help.
http://www.tartybike..._wheels/m8.html
Acutally my bike is an Echo 24". Rides lovely but I don't trust Magura brakes enough to make progress in my riding. I prefer big wheels but I'd happily trade that for a more dependable rear brake.
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For me the main advantage of mods is the fact that you can run a rear disc brake. I personally have had better luck with discs than with rim brakes. I feel I can up bigger stuff on my 24 inch Echo than I could on my mod back in the day, although I am still a beginner. However I am considering going back to mod because I want to try a rear disc brake (I've heard very positive things about this set-up).
Fake try-All ISIS cranks?
in Trials Chat
Posted · Edited by Scoox
Living in China has made me very wary of counterfeit products. I want to get a pair of Try-All cranks and I saw these ones on Taobao (a Chinese online marketplace) for about 30 quid, which seems too low for an imported product. Here is a pic:
As you can see, they are black. The ones Tarty sells are silver and those are the ones I see everywhere, never seen the black ones in any shop or on a bike. However, they are featured on the Try-All webite here. Surprisingly, Try-All couldn't be bothered to list the technical specs of their own products, all they provide is a shitty low-res picture. As usual, Tartybikes provide more information and better pictures than the manufacturers themselves...
So what I would like to know is:
Thanks guys