I have just got a pair of toxsin pad's so and not many people have used them so thougth i would wright a revue. pads-toxsin rim-tryall light grind used for-2 days price-12.00 pads used- koxx brow,red,plaz pads,zoo,koolstops,blacks and echo These pads suprised me they had so much grip and lots of bite there is not to much sound but very impressive. I think these pads would work alot better on a smoth rim. mr monty