Scoox

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About Scoox

  • Rank
    Trials Monkey

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Interests
    Ladies, bikes, music and computers (in no particular order)
  • Location
    Wuxi, Jiangsu Province, China

Previous Fields

  • County (UK Only)
    Non UK
  • Real Name
    Manuel Fernandez
  • Bike Ridden
    Mod
  • Quick Spec
    Echo 20" 2012 edition w/ dual BB7
  • Country
    China, People's Republic of

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  1. Absolutely. When the elbows are close to the torso, the hands are almost completely vertical (say, 85 degree downsweep). An upsweep would be needed only if the elbows were above the shoulders.
  2. Neutral wrist position, you can see this guy pretending he's holding a pair of bars and his hands are naturally angled downwards. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-Handlebars-How-Wide-Affects-Your-Ride-2011.html
  3. I thought about this more yesterday and came up with two simple rules: For a fixed amount of backsweep, more upsweep => Rotate bars further backwards (towards the rider) for wrist comfort less upsweep => You'll be able to run your bars rotated further forward without compromising on wrist comfort. There. Upsweep and backsweep are actually just a single angle if you think in 3D, if you take flatbars, when you rotate them backwards the upsweep becomes backsweep. A slight downward angle would actually feel better on the rear wheel. Currently this could be achieved with flatbars rotated so they are pointing slightly downwards instead of upwards, but that would look way too wank. Would be interesting to see some bars where the bar has an overall rise to it while the ends are slightly bent down to follow the wrists neutral position (slight supination). This is the same as ergonomic typing keyboards which are "tented".
  4. Just noticed on the Arcade bars product page on Tarty: "Similar total rise to other handlebars - the difference is in the upsweep! More "rise" and less upsweep makes the "shoulders" of the handlebars much higher, which makes the part that most of you hands actually grip notably higher than bars with less "rise" and more sweep. This makes the bars feel much higher rise. (See extra picture for visual comparison to the ever-popular Trialtech High Rise bars.)" That's exactly my theory! I get the biggest callus at the base of my pinkies, because the pinkies are trying to do the work that the middle & ring fingers should be doing. The middle finger is way under-used with v-shaped bars. My new bars are not here yet though, can't wait to test and confirm
  5. Jamesb, what I've noticed is that a lot of stems are now only 150mm in length, so a lot of riders tilt their bars forwards to add a bit of length and hence leverage, which makes hopping on the rear wheel less strenuous. This is especially a problem on mods. I don't know what stem you are using, but recently I switched from 150mm 30° to 175mm 35° and it's night and day. With the longer stem I can turn my bars to a comfortable angle while still having plenty of leverage. You may also want to try thicker grips if you are getting wrist pain it may, again a lot of people go for super thin and in my case my hand pain went away with thicker grips. It's not always a good idea to "follow the elite". For bars, the only real solution would be to make several geometries available. As you say, there's no such think as a perfect handlebar for everybody, what works for me may not work for you. Two days ago I rounded up all the models I could buy easily this side of the planet (China) and made a little comparison chart, see attachment. Some values are not complete but the geo values are mostly all in. I really wanted to try something with more rise and less upsweep, and install the bars tilted forward to effectively have the same effect as a very long stem and give me more leverage, hopefully encouraging a more relaxed posture when on the rear wheel. Eventually I ordered myself a "SAW Riser 7075" bar, rise is a notch more than my Echo SL bars but with the lesser upsweep the hand should be positioned a bit higher. Since I plan to install them tilted forward it (following the direction of the stem), the reduced upsweep in theory should ease off some strain at the base of the pinky which is where I get the biggest callus at the moment, while the backsweep should feel rather sweet on the rear wheel. Will report back my impressions once I get them.
  6. Hi people, I'm looking to get a new handlebar with a higher rise mainly to act as an extension to my stem, currently running Echo SL alu bars that shipped with the bike. I've searched high and low and couldn't find much about this whole "upsweep" and "backsweep" business. I install my bars so that they feel most comfortable on the rear wheel. In that position I find the backsweep angle basically follows the natural grip angle of my hands, more or less. Currently most trials bars have a backsweep angle between 8° and 11°, with 10° being the most popular backsweep angle (8 out of 15 bars I'm comparing had a 10° backsweep). Due to geometrical considerations, longer bars require more backsweep (just imagine how awkward it would be holding a 1500mm-long completely straight bar). The effect of the backsweep is pretty obvious. And then we have upsweep. Unlike backsweep, upsweep angle values vary wildly across different handlebar models: out of 15 trials bars I'm comparing, upsweep ranges from 4° to 14°, and there is no clear popular upsweep value. It seems manufacturers haven't yet figured out what riders need? Is upsweep needed if you have a very long stem or a very high rise? I can see how the upsweep makes the bars feel nicer on two wheels, but I don't understand why the upsweep angle is different from, and in many cases greater than, the backsweep angle. The human hand has a particular neutral position. Associated with this neutral position is a particular neutral position grip angle, which is unique to each person and fixed (in other words you'd need some kind of surgery to change that), therefore it doesn't make sense using different values for upsweep and backsweep, since there can only be one optimal grip angle, not two, that will suit the anatomy of a particular hand, therefore both upsweep and backsweep should follow the neutral angle. The neutral grip angle and is actually very easy to measure, just grab a broomstick and see which way it points, then measure the angle using a protractor. In my case this angle is 20° (long arms here), measured to a line perpendicular to the length of the bike frame, with elbows bent at 90°. So the popular 11° backsweep is a bit shy for me, but tolerable. My problem with the upsweep is that, on the rear wheel, it forces unnatural wrist pronation, rather than letting the wrists sit nice and horizontal in the neutral position which is mechanically more efficient and therefore comfortable. Here's what pronation looks like (the opposite is called supination): (Link) So basically it's like grabbing a bull by the horns, you get the idea. In fact, on the rear a slight "downsweep" would probably offer more comfort on the rear wheel. I remember watching a video where one of the riders ran his bars with a controversial negative upsweep (his bars were effectively flipped around), maybe this is the reason? Is it possible that front-wheel moves benefit from an upsweep, while rear-wheel moves from the backsweep? I'm only beginning to learn front wheel landings so I'm not sure if that's where the upsweep would come in handy, and in that case, wouldn't it make more sense to make both angles equal? Maybe I'm overthinking this. What's your experience with different bar geometries? Cheers
  7. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) today agreed to add baseball/softball, karate, skateboard, sports climbing and surfing to the sports programme for the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020. If skateboarding was approved I don't see why trials couldn't, other than the fact that there are more skateboarders than trialsters because skateboards are more affordable. It's up to people with more leverage than us individuals, such as the UCI, to start making noise (they may already be doing so...). Trials deserves a place in the Olympics because (a) it's a proper sport compared with many already approved so-called sports such as golf, (b) it's fun to watch and, (c) it would be beneficial for bike manufacturers and riders alike, and (d) it's a highly contagious sport--I know very few kids who woudn't want to ride trials after watching another kid do it.
  8. I've always run stock BB7 sintered pads but I want to try organics. So I went on Google and it seems there are loads of third-party aftermarket BB7-compatible pads. It's a minefield, without having tried any of them I literally have no clue what they will be like, but I don't want to buy them all only to find that there are only marginal differences. I'm essentially looking for something with a little more "bite". I've read about EBC pads but I can't get them where I live, any other recommendations? Are Avid's own organics any good? Thanks
  9. SRAM replied again, it's basically what niconj says: Hardware refers to bolts of the brake unit. The caliper made in two halves- the halves are held together with two main caliper bolts. Also, the caliper requires two long bolts (paired with conical washers) to hold the unit to the caliper adapter, or disc post mount. There is an additional cable retention bolt that secures the cable to the brake unit, so the brake will function. We refer to these bolts collectively as “hardware”. The BB7 do come with steel backed Organic brake compound, which do wear slightly faster but are significantly quieter under braking. The BB7 come with metal sintered pads. They are designed for the same application.
  10. I emailed SRAM and here's what they said: The only difference between BB7 and BB7s is finish, and hardware. The hardware on BB7 is painted steel, while the hardware on the BB7s is stainless. Performance-wise, they are identical. which is very confusing, because the BB7 and BB7 Mountain S callipers are both made of forged aluminium, so I'm not sure which "hardware" (which bit that is I have no clue) is steel or stainless steel. The claim that "performance-wise they are identical" is hard to believe, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to list different intended uses for each model, plus each model comes with different pads (regular vs organic) which means the performance will necessarily be different. I assume they were just talking about the mechanical advantage. I'm emailing them again.
  11. Gray = Regular BB7, Black = BB7 Mountain S and BB7 Road S (not SL), Shiny silver = BB7 Road SL only, Matte silver = BB7 Road. The difference between regular, Mountain and Road (based on what I've read) is that regular and Mountain both have greater mechanical advantage than Road, which means on the Roads the brake pads move more distance for the same amount of brake lever travel, but the downside is less braking power, so the Road variant is off my shopping list.
  12. Yeah I just don't know where the weight savings come from, which is dumb of them not to state. The description says it supports 160/180/200mm rotors. BTW sorry I had posted the wrong pic in my original post, fixed now. I love the regular BB7 but in China you get a fake one 9 out of 10 times, so I was hoping these would be the ticket for me. Keep the replies coming, thanks!
  13. I'm putting together a new bike. I'm a big fan of mech discs and I was all set to grab a nice pair of BB7s but then the BB7 Mountain S came up on Google which looks very similar to the regular BB7s except for the finish and colours. I wonder if anyone here uses it here. I don't care much for colours but I live in China where there are way too many fake Avid products and buying a rare variant usually means I don't get shafted. The SRAM website says: Regular BB7 intended use: XC/TRAIL/AM/FR/DH BB7 Mountain S intended use: Cross Country, Trekking, Comfort, Mountain That kinda suggests the regular BB7 is beefier but SRAM couldn't be bothered to even give any details about the differences or even the obvious product comparison table, which is quite embarrassing for a company of their size...
  14. I thought I'd give a quick update on these grips. It's been over a year with them and I'm still using the same gloves with the palm cut-outs (see the photo I posted). On average I ride 3 times a week, 1.5 hours a time. At the moment I have only subtle calluses but not as bad as I used to get. My hands never get painful or bleed even after a long period of inactivity (e.g. after a holiday), even with the glove cut-outs which most people would think would be more vulnerable as it's bare-handed. When the grips were brand-new they didn't conform to the shape of my hand perfectly, even though the size was about right. What has happened over time is that the points there the pressure is greater have worn down, and now it's completely ergonomic and perfect for my hand. The area near the pinky is thinner, and the area near the thumb is a little thicker. Constant diameter grips (basically most trials grips) are not a good fit to begin with. After experimenting with different set-ups, here are my conclusions: Handlebar rotation: This is an obvious one, but the the handlebars need to be installed at an angle that results in the most even distribution of pressure along the "balls" of the hand (the area where hands usually blister). Each rider is different, and trying a few bars will give you an idea of what works for you. Grip diameter: Grip diameter must be chosen to match your hand size. The idea that "the thinner the better always" is basically wrong, you don't buy shoes that are too big or too small, you buy the correct size. Too thin grips: Try grasping a pencil and imagine what would happen if that was your handlebars. The grip would constantly slide back and forth along the length of your hand's proximal phalanges, and we all know that friction leads to chafing and eventually bleeding. This is the problem I had. Too thick grips: You won't have the chafing problem but your hand won't be able to grasp the entire perimeter of the grip, which means your hands could slip off and you won't feel safe while you ride. Right size grips: You get comfort, no blisters, safe riding and confidence. If you want to experiment with different diameters bar tape is a good solution as you can start off with a generous diameter and gradually remove tape to experiment with different diameters. Ventilation and sweat: Contrary to what most people think, gloves don't always prevent blisters and may in fact make the situation worse! There is only one time when they can help prevent blisters, and that's when your grips are too thin, as the glove adds a bit of thickness. Using thicker grips achieves the same result. One thing gloves prevent for sure is ventilation, which results in more sweat, especially on the palm of the hands which is always sealed up against the grips. Wet and warm hands are more likely to chafe. Furthermore, gloves tend to wrinkle up at he base of the fingers as you grasp the grips, leading to irregular pressure distribution, which increases the chances of blisters. Try riding gloveless if you are not ready to cut holes in your gloves yet and see it for yourself (like I said, make sure you've got the right diameter grips). In my experience, in trials gloves will only protect you from minor scratches, usually on the knuckles. I also find they make my index finger more comfortable when pulling on the brake lever, that's it, and only because I my fingers are thin. Other than looking cool, gloves are pretty useless in trials. So, in summary: adjust your bars to an angle that works for you, choose the right grip size and shape, and ensure your hands are well ventilated (cut-outs or gloveless).
  15. In the end I used a long piece of wood and a hammer, it came off easier than I expected. For removing the freewheel I had the correct Echo freewheel removal tool with a big bolt+nut through it and a bench with a big vice, but the bench was not heavy enough and it kept spinning on the floor when using a lever, so I tried to use a soft mallet instead and I kinda buggered up the freewheel removal tool as the nut kept coming loose. In the end the freewheel wouldn't budge so I just went with new Echo TR splined cranks & freewheel plus liberal amounts of anti-seize compound everywhere. Thanks for all the tips anyway!