Pazu

Not sure I follow you completely regarding the "taper interface" but I'm thinking that I can see a whole lot of it. You have to understand I'm in a small rural part of the USA; the bike shop available to me, the best & only one in the area, has never heard of Neon, never heard of Because, has no trials bikes and barely has any BMX bikes. I'm sure they have dealt with ISIS bottom brackets though. There are very few trials riders or trials bikes around here. I have never seen either. I asked around and the closest thing going on is something in Massachusetts next month, a couple hundred miles away. I doubt that this bike shop has ever seen a crank arm placed freewheel for instance. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but it will probably end up being a learning experience for the bike shop. My guess on this issue is, that either the crank arms weren't milled properly or I'm just not tightening the BB bolts enough. But, this part of the bike came already assembled; I would think that it would have been fully seated by TOPGEARS. Writing to them is next on my list!

Rodger that, thanks. Nice smiley! I'll throw it on the car this morning and have the bike shop check it out after work. I suppose that I could just bring a crank arm but, it might be helpful if they had the whole bike there.

It does seem difficult to tighten the bolts more than they are. I don't want to break something. I'll have to bring it to a bike shop as you suggest. Which sucks because I have all of the tools, which I bought with the money that I would save on bike shop visits. But, like you say, I don't have other parts to try. I think that the crank arms might need milling out of the inner circumference. I might as well bring it in for a setup then, they can look at why the chain is going slack as well. I can also email TOPGEARS about this. Thanks for your advise.

Ouch! Thanks for the creative criticism; I will try to do better in future. Are semicolons crazy? Ha ha no problem, I'll be more clear. I have a decent set of bike tools now. I am about to pull a crank arm. EDIT - The crank arms don't seem to be seating completely on the bottom bracket spindle. I removed the left side crank arm. It fits part way on to the bottom bracket spindle. Even if the crank arm is reversed on the spindle, it will still fit part way. Yet when set properly it will not seat all of the way. I risk stripping the spindle threads if I tighten the crank arm bolt further. I may have to bring it to a local shop and see what they think. Does anyone know if ISIS cranksets have to be pressed into place with a vise prior to tightening the crank arm bolts? Is there a 12:00 position to the crank and spindle that are supposed to be lined up? Any advise would be appreciated, I haven't dealt with ISIS cranksets before. John

Here is a tutorial on beginning hops if you haven't run across it. I am just beginning myself.

Cool thanks Stuvy yes I am happy with it. Good luck with getting your bike together. I was able to check the bottom bracket bolts. Seems they are on solid but the splines don't cover completely. Pulling them when tools arrive. After a 26" setup, I'm having learn the 20" wheels just generally, they roll more abruptly or just differently over roots. Still it is coming fast, on the trail, track stand is accessible. It is a recurrent relief to lose it backwards and just put my feet down as compared to the 26" which wasn't as easy to save. Also bailing tends to stay in the general area rather than off into the woods as much which as a beginner I appreciate. Stamina is low at this point, but excitement is high. Thrilling really! Chain tension and alignment seems tricky. The bike has cams around the axle that ride against a set screw on the dropout. I relied on the current brake alignment as a start to determine the chain alignment/wheel position in the dropouts. Torquing down the axle bolts kept resulting in the chain becoming over-tensioned. Eventually it wasn't making an alignment or tension-related noise, but it seemed as sloppy as before I attempted to tighten it. I noticed on the trail that I got some chain slap noise. It looks as though the chain has some deflection; if so, would explain the persistent misalignment noises that were occurring during adjustment. I wonder if that might be related to the splines not seeming to be fully seated, would that result in the crank out of position, or perhaps something in accommodating that freewheel is resulting in its' being out of track. I need to look at that more closely. One thing seems clear, this bike & I are getting along fine! Two pictures, Any advise out there as to whether this ISIS looks seated or not, I am not sure. If not seated maybe that would explain possible alignment issue? Thanks!

Good points you bring up Ogre I can see your point about the brake lever assembly needing to be able to rotate if I crash it into something, otherwise it would break. I'm definitely checking the BB to see that it is seated all of the way. Not all of the allen keys seem to be in the tool box right now. I ordered a set of good bike tools last week but they haven't arrived yet. Okay, about the brake levers, when riding trials, do you find yourself putting a lot of twist force on the bars while you have a brake or brakes engaged? I can see how it might make more sense to have the levers closer to the bar from the start. I'll make that adjustment with the grub nut I think, to get mine closer to the bar to start with. The only thing that I have been able to do on the bike, was to bring it up on the rear wheel and try balancing like that. I was surprised at how long it held there, the fat rear tire was a big difference compared to my mountain bike. The rear brake held fine for that, but then just stopping to get off the bike where I took the video, the clamp snapped. Thanks for the advise man, means a lot to me. My conditioning needs to improve radically if I'm going to have the muscle control at the ready to fine tune my balance on this bike. Something that I want for myself anyhow. Fun stuff!

Oh & thanks, I do really like the looks of this bicycle & I'm digging back through "Your Complete Guide To Trials Riding" now that I've finally got the bike in my hands. Must be some bike setup tips in it. I figured out the posting pictures thing, not sure why I didn't see it before. Here's the crack, for what it's worth. Well I know what it's worth, it's a $12 crack. $12 lever on a $750 bicycle. Come to think of it, I might still be able to use this lever for my mountain board... Hmm. It would probably just break in another place, if it is bad metal. I would think that the tapped threads would have stripped out first if it were tightened too tight, Or that it would have broken when I tightened it, not later when I used it. One things for sure, stuff breaks.

Huh well they seem secure. I have not tightened them, but I will before I ride it again. Which will be several days evidently due to the brake lever problem. Now TOPGEARS wants a picture of the broken lever. I've ridden the bike maybe 3 minutes, pedaled the cranks only a few times so there's no damage to the BB. I ordered new Avid 7 levers from Amazon yesterday, anticipating a jerk-around from TOPGEARS. I had tightened the lever to the bars to the point where it wouldn't rotate on the bars, I don't think that's too tight. Then when I squeezed the lever I heard a snap, and this happened. I would post a pic but I haven't figured that out. I think that I put a little twist energy into the braking which helped it to snap, but considering the purpose of the bike I think that the clamp should not have snapped at all, I think it's cheap metal. Bummed, I might have to take a lever off of my mountain board just to keep riding over the weekend. With the disc brakes, it seems they have a very long throw, is this normal or are the brake cables tensioned so that the throw is halfway engaged already, on my mountain bike I am used to brakes that engage in less than half an inch of brake lever travel, but this is several inches of lever travel before the brake engages, which I am not used to. I would rather tighten them up so that they engage rather immediately, but if they are supposed to engage when your hand is closed around the handlebar I guess I would have to keep them loose like this.

The Neon Wing from TOPGEARS has arrived; it's home for the first time, from China, via US Postal Service. Here's a 240FPS capture of it. I want to do a run-down on the components, not sure where to post that, maybe just here. The only issue was that the fork was shipped loose on the frame, in the head or steerer tube, so the bearing retainers were flopping around on the fork tube. Turns out, a single bearing was missing. I did not notice this at first, so my first drive "to town" and back for grease, was immediately followed up with another run "to town" to get a single bearing. 90 miles of driving, for grease and a single bearing. The guy at the bike shop (Omer & Bob's) set me up with more bearings so that I could dispense with the retainers and go with all bearings - he said it would be stronger - but for now since the bike is on warranty I've just filled in the missing position in the retainer and built it up. I got on the bike briefly, wonder if I have the bars turned too far forward. They are about 2X as wide as my Mbike bars. Having the crank above the wheelbase, has caused me to quietly lower my current skill grade by 1 notch. Then again I've been on the bike for > 1 minute so far. After a few hours, I should have that change accommodated. The frame feels light and stiff. I like it! It's like my Yamaha Trailways 250, with the fat back tire. Can hardly believe it - I am finally rolling on my new trials bike, Yeah! Update - a few minutes further in, I squeezed the rear brake. The band of metal that clamps the brake lever assembly to the handlebar, snapped at the top. TOPGEARS is sending a replacement. Rear brake out of commission. Well it works, but it also spins around on the handlebar. [media=]https://vimeo.com/46511819

I'm well into the 40's range, & just starting out, bike not delivered yet, that's a fantastico deluxe Diamond Back Wozzer! What a sweet looking machine. I'm picking up that book too... Track stand front wheel not turned... Gonna have to practice that.

I see what you are saying about weight. It's all about avoiding these pitfalls Ogre thanks for your advise.

Woh talk about the analogy worth a thousand words, Like having an extra section in your leg. Instructionally put! I can see that now. So, the freewheel front, I'm just not visualizing where that comes into play. Maybe in conjunction with braking, to torque against the brake? I can't wait to try it and find out what it is like.

Thanks for your thoughts Michael it is encouraging to hear. Enjoyable time exercising and practicing skills, is exactly what I'm looking for, it looks like the 20" provides more room to move around and I like that. I can do some things on my 26" but with so many technical blind spots at this point, the 20" should help to sort that out. The smaller bike will be easier to transport. And, it's less far to fall, to be honest. Maybe it will be a little less unnerving to lean way back to where I need to be, on the smaller bike. I'm really looking forward to trying something new. Watching the Trashzen videos & particularly some of the text descriptions is great and with a new bike to start with I won't be tempted back into poor habits like accelerating through everything. It is looking like wrist and forearm strength is pretty important in getting the bike up.

This is a link to a video of 2 minutes of my mountain bike. I practice balance and do what trials-like stuff that I can do, on it. I don't know if the link will work. It's not riding, it's just the bike. https://vimeo.com/45866378

THanks JMCD, Damon is great. That's "Big Bunny" Ros right, heard of him at least. I'm beginning to visualize that drive chain kick, definitely still don't have my mind around it, I have never used the technique. It is so fun to be green to this & to be putting together an idea as to how these incredible feats of maneuvering are achieved. So there is no freewheel on the back wheel, the freewheel is on the bottom bracket, right? How does this difference from the rear cog freewheeling, surface as an advantage to the trials rider? Does this mean that the chain is always in motion when the rear wheel is rolling? I live in a rural, back-woods area and there are no trials bikes available in shops around me, so I haven't even seen one in person. I am older, so, much as I don't want to accept it, my age will likely be a limiting factor in what I'll be able to accomplish ... But so what! I just want to get out there and have fun. One of my boys was working on his thrown together bmx bike, I tried it out and it was good. I could track stand one handed on it indefinitely, without brakes... So I feel I have a fighting chance at getting a lot of fun out of this bike!

Yeah! Pics to follow. Thinking about that isis crank, that is going to make such a difference for me - thanks again Ogre for mentioning. I am looking forward to some high drops, I've always been able to jump down from very high positions without difficulty but the torque that my landing weight is going to put on a crankarm is going to be huge, that landing pressure is going to require a splined shaft for sure. One question from someone with no experience - can a skilled trials rider jump up further vertically with a bicycle, that he might jump vertically without one? In other words can a bicycle extend one's natural leaping ability? I haven't quite visualized that yet, but here at work I'm looking around campus at all of these tempting obstacles that I will one day attempt, wondering what is and isn't realistic. Of course my bar is set at zero now... There are lots of rivers and mountain streams in my area with megalithic granite formations and steep drops, if I ever get any good it will be killer to get video in those gorgeous natural places.

I should clarify. The deal that I'm in is becoming convoluted. I bought and paid for a bike that was online in stock, they reported back that it wasn't & asked whether I could go for another bike or get credited back. So I thought to go for another bike, made another payment to cover additional cost of that, oniy to find that there had been a mistake; the additional cost should have been another $140 above what they had told me, but, I should instead take this other bike. So at this point in the deal, the actual "item" that I purchased, still hasn't been settled on. I will probably just go with this new bike suggestion. The guy was very accommodating in regard to the isis crank and that is a good quality in a vendor. The company has good feedback as well. I'm just new to it, didn't know quite what to be looking for or passing on in terms of dollars vs. value in a general sense. **UPDATE** I gave them another 108, going for the Neon Wing. Deal defined. So stoked to ride this new bike. With isis crank gear. Stoked

I could have, if I got my funds credited back. I have not been able to find much for options in the US or that will ship to the US. At $750, that's 481 pounds, I think that's a lot of money but the bike is a lot of precision machine as well and he will throw in the isis crank. And he seems like a good guy. I saw some bikes on this forum site but then noticed a red banner that said these were no longer available. So I've got a little site navigation confusion going on there. And of those bikes, most said in country shipping only. I checked a few other sites, but they did not have any bikes obviously in stock, did not list weight which was important to me. There's one place in US that has bikes that are all over a grand. I haven't checked to see if they are in stock yet. Maybe I should be using Tartybikes? I seem to be hitting a time between models due out in August.

Yes I have all of those obstacles at home now, logs stones and a few pallets. I do 40 minutes on ACT elliptical almost every day, that's what I do to stay in shape primarily. It's always set up so I just get on it. I've been avoiding carbs altogether & putting my system into ketosis to burn fat. Difficult since I'm vegetarian but it's been working. I hadn't thought much about tools until you mentioned the ISIS crank, I see that I'll have to invest in some. I have most common bike tools already, having ridden road and mountain bike for many years. Never thought about needing cable cutters though, I'll look into it when I get the bike. I've built many wheels from cross 3 or 4 to radial I so should be okay there. I'm making note of all of this detail Ogre & I appreciate it! Now the guy I'm trying to get a bike from says that the extra $140 that I sent him to upgrade to the bike that I linked to above, is not enough. He made a mistake. Now he's saying I should go for this bike which he will throw in the ISIS crank stuff on. So I wonder Ogre if you might have some opinion as to whether I am being hosed on the bike below for $890, 571.11 in pounds. Will have ISIS crank/arms (140 of which is shipping)? The price is starting to creep up on my purchase and I wonder if I am losing the bargain. Looks like this one doesn't have a 2012 frame but I have an email in checking on that. Thanks for any advise! http://topgears.ecra...on-wing-20-2011

Good it seems I am on track. Trashzen's great, the text really draws you through the physics of the techniques. So the Echo 72 freewheel is in the okay range. That is a good mechanical point about the drivetrain. Well I'm stabile, but not conditioned for trials. Becoming more fit, is part of what this is about. It's okay if it takes me years to develop skills, I'm already doing some trials basics stuff in my driveway and wherever I ride, just not with great technique style or efficiency and I'm sure I'll be doing that sort of goofing around until if/when I drop. Trials, city trials riding is so ideal for me personally speaking, in so many ways. You can cover so much distance and learn so much, in a relatively small area. Expend every ounce of energy and fit in hours of riding, in a driveway. Myself I live on a dirt road on the shore of a lake. I don't have to go anywhere, it's all here. I can ride down the road goofing around on a trials bike with my 10yo son on his bike, he can keep up with me & I can still return home exhausted, or if he doesn't want to go for a ride, it doesn't have to spoil my ride any more. Roads here in rural NH, the back roads are still cool but on the main routes it's dangerous these days for any cyclists. I do cancer rides etc. but for the most part there are too many road-ragers out there. My point is that trials is the logical progression for me, and trials is part of my path to better conditioning as well. If you have suggestions as to what exercises might help with beginning trials conditioning, please let me know. I get the feeling that once I get past the things that I have learned wrong, I'll be able to achieve good results without so much strain and effort. I'm slightly overweight due to body fat but not due to health prob's or a gut full of crap, That will go soon enough once I have a smaller bike, I can then practice longer with more results and that energy will translate to losing that, and my abilities will progress further still. I have no ultimate goal, I am content just to continually improve. I'm going off-topic a bit for a sec but it speaks to the question of how trials and the better fitness and of course searing mental discipline and determination that it requires, will benefit me for one. I am also working on a traction device for another sport and it is demanding of balance. Drawings done, materials list and got some test wheels together, need to buy stock for rails at Home Depot, & then I'll have my first prototype together. In order to test this thing I need to be dialed in fit-wise and mentally. I have other skills like I have hang glided and I can roll my kayak, all self-taught. Not necessarily related to trials, but activities requiring a reasonable level of spacial awareness and fitness. But I have high hopes for this traction device. I got a "Turfboard" for $80 to fit this need, it's like a mountain board but it is too large, too heavy and awkward. Makes a nice small couch though. Weighs almost 40lbs. Thing I'm making should weigh 10 lbs. Thanks for the thoughts! Pazu

So Awesome. Thanks Ogre I am encouraged. I emailed the guy requesting an ISIS bracket. Thank you for pointing that out. Understood that the square will still work, but clearly the best advantage will be with the ISIS bottom bracket and different crank arms to fit. I hope that they are lighter as well. I'm following you that trials riding isn't easy. I am in a good position to begin with some skills that will translate. Firstly, falling a lot, don't confront me. Helmet, yeah I do need another. I have a few bike helmets but my Bell Metropolis is more for road/MB. I mean to look over this site to find some good low profile helmet options. I also need elbow & knee protection but I might make that up myself. I have a solid track stand and I can ride down a trail without wheel rotation or foot plants if I want to - it's just that I feel terribly inefficient at it, like I'm ridiculously over-exerting to accomplish it, I lack finesse so there's definitely flaws with my technique on the bigger MB. I used to do trials-like MB riding but I always used toe clips and I would lift with my feet as well, which is not the right technique. I swapped out my toe clips for trials pedals last year but I haven't been able to progress much more. There are problems with my mountain bike though, like I cut down the bars to accommodate the trails that I was riding which had some really narrow gaps that I had to take at speed. A few times one of the bar ends caught a tree & put me into the ground so I cut them off; they are now 19" end to end. It has an old Answer Manitou Magnum fork that I converted to stiff from suspended; with the beatings that I've been putting it through, it's not going to last much longer. I'll check out Trashzen & Tartybikes today. I've had problems with grips loosening, they must be glued in place for trials riding? I know of one guy who is learning trials, and there's a skate park in a neighboring town that has some good BMX guys there on Wednesday so I'm going to stop in there and see if I can learn anything. I'm much older than most of the kids that frequent the skate park but my son tells me that on Weds. there are old men like me there. Thanks pro guy, I'm mulling over the possibility of changing the setup to a rim brake on the rear, I think that they are lighter? I've never had a brake system like either of these and look forward to the experience. I appreciate that you guys have taken the time to relate this good information! Pazu

Thanks pro guy I appreciate your insight. That is just what I wanted to hear that a bigger upper body doesn't necessarily require some or other specific geometry. Do you think that I would learn faster with a rim brake as compared to disc. Yes I want to practice rear wheel pogo at home to really own that then map out obstacles that I could hit one by one along a nice ride maybe with a little history to it. I like to do high frame rate camera stuff & 808 cam stuff so I should be able to make some fun garage vids like a lot of you on here do. I can see why you do it, it is way fun. I thought that it might be be self-encouraging to re-begin my approach to trials with a smaller, lighter bike than my mountain bike, you know which won't sap my energy so fast (maybe?). Yes Danny Mac, man I have always loved, absolutely loved the bicycle from rigging stuff up w/front ski as a poor country kid through road and mountain bikes, except that I never hit bmx as it happens. I saw Danny Mac's coming home video, he was connecting that bicycle with the iron core of the earth in a way that I had never imagined, it changed everything. Now I am finally in a position to explore this interest. So I thought that I would get a 20", mess around with that for a couple of months then get a 24" or a 26" and translate what I have learned at that point, to the larger form trials bikes. Never given nothing but I've worked really hard & now I can afford to get any bike out there, really. I see myself on a 24" or 26" soon. Wish I had known of this site before my money was in the register of this guy I'm buying one from but he seems solid. He said he would let me make changes to the bike specs if I wanted. I am on call for 2 wks every 6 and get called in all hours of the night to fix stuff - right in my obstacles playground. So I look forward to messing around some in the early hours of the morning after having fixed stuff. So this is the bike that I"m getting at this point - but with a 2012 frame. It is said to be approx. 9KG. I am willing to spend a little more money to improve my skills building if it is necessary. http://topgears.ecra...0-disc-edition#

Respectful hello... Anybody have tips as to what I should look for, frame geometry and component-wise, to fit my particular body type, which is 5'7", long torso, 165 lbs? Or any body type-to-bike tips at all, might help me figure out what would be best. My type of riding will be city, concrete, granite, steel, railings. I live in forest but work on college campus which has innumerable play objects and I will be taking advantage of that. I won't be competing, just satisfying my inner lust for balance. This is link to the bike I am buying (upgraded to 2012 frame), but the guy would build me anything I wanted, I think. http://topgears.ecra...0-disc-edition# Thanks for reading & any advise would be much appreciated. Looks to be a rainy day today in G.B. & vicinity; I'm hoping that somebody is stuck indoors today & willing to give out some ideas! Pazu

I should probably put this request for advise in another forum location... whoops. Hi all, I am also interested in trials riding. I bought a bike last night then learned that it wasn't in stock! I had already paid for it. This puts me in a better position as it has bought me the time to more sensibly approach my purchase. I am figuring on buying a 20" as a first trials bike. Never did BMX, grew up on road bikes then mountain bikes, not competitively. I have a long torso & wonder if anyone might have thoughts as to frame geometry in a trials bike for someone of my build. Also I'm 5' 7". Here are three options presented to me by the guy that I expect to buy my bike from: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BIONIC-B5R-6 black frame: Frame B5R-6 3 monther warranty Fork: ZHI-R 1 year warranty Headset VP Stem FACTORY 5months warranty Handlebar ZHI 6061 no logo BB VP Freewheel ACS-16T Bashpl BIONIC Crank BIONIC Padels VP-565 Chain KMC Front hub ZHI-R 1 year warranty Rear hub ZHI-R 1 year warranty Rear cog 12T 1 year warranty Rims FACTORY Brakes: front n rear BB5 $630 + $85 shipping --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BIONIC-B5R-6 silver frame BIONIC-B5R-6 complete bike ( BB5 disc front and rear) silver frame. Frame B5R-6 3 months warranty Fork: ZHI-R 1 year warranty Headset VP Stem BIONIC-L 1 year warranty Handlebar ZHI 6061 no logo BB VP Freewheel ACS-16T Bashpl BIONIC-R Crank BIONIC-R Padels VP-565 Chain KMC Front hub ZHI-R 1 year warranty Rear hub ZHI-R 1 year warranty Rear cog 12T 1 year warranty Rims BIONIC-S Brakes: front n rear BB5 $670 + $85 shipping ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ZHI TEAM complete bike silver frame Frame 2012 ZHI TEAM 3 months warranty Fork: ZHI-R 1 year warranty Headset VP Stem FACTORY 1 year warranty Handlebar ZHI 6061 no logo BB VP Freewheel ACS-16T Bashpl BIONIC - R Crank BIONIC - R Padels VP-565 Chain KMC Front hub ZHI-R 1 year warranty Rear hub ZHI-R 1 year warranty Rear cog 12T 1 year warranty Rims FACTORY Brakes: front n rear BB5 I would respectfully ask if anyone knowledgable in trials bike componentry or geometry would care to offer advise as to which of these bikes might best suit my body type and beginner status? They look to be quite similar. Or, perhaps I might benefit from something different? I hasten to add, that I have good balance and coordination so I am in a solid position to learn. I can track stand road and mountain bike well, side hop and hop 360's. It becomes rather tedious & exhausting on a 31 lb. mountain bike; I think it's time to try my skills on something much, much lighter. I know that I'm going to love it. If I should spend a little more to drop some weight from these bikes which are said to come in at 9.8 - 10.3 KG, or if I should be considering different braking systems well I would be appreciative if someone might set me straight on it. I expect to be exploiting interesting city territory on an otherwise pastoral college campus where I have to be anyhow, as well as natural formations around ponds and lakes that I know. I want to learn to jump up off and around things. I read a lot from this forum already and appreciate you all having shared your insights so that now I can learn from them! The guy that I am already in a deal with, is taking his time in getting back to me so it's a great time for me to dial in to what would best suit my needs. Thanks, Pazu