Ben Davies Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 ok, so i used to ride trials almost every day from the age of about 15 - 19, im now almost 26! back in the day i used to have a high spec pashley 26mhz and it was the nuts, i felt invisible on it and really confident.....about a year ago i started riding again and my natural instincts told me to get another pashley.....i set it up very similar to how i had it before with regards to bar and stem sizes, it looked pretty much the same, now, i know that i was a bit rusty when i got back on a bike, and didnt expect to be hopping up big walls and doing gaps and 9 foot drops like before but i was really crap, and i mean, it was like i had never ridden a trials bike! how frustrating? so anyway, i took it on the chin and made the most of it, eventually ive managed to get some of my confidence back but i am never as good as i used to be?.........(the pashley is a short wheelbase frame)..after watching various trials dvd's and vids on youtube and watching these guys ripping up the most technical stuff on what looks like long frames with no seats i decided to sell the pashley and get with the times and buy an echo pure (long) .....i just can't get my head round it, it wont bunny hop, (ive tried varoius stems) its great on the back wheel and side hops but thats about it! so am i suited to a shorter frame???? (maybe a more modern frame like a pure short?)ive recently bought a 2nd hand 2nd trials bike to run singe speed with v brakes its a giant team trials 04, (the wheelbase is something like 1060) ive stripped my echo down and put all the good parts on it and it bunny hops very easily, not too bad on the back wheel, and generally feels better that the echo?! surely this cant be the case?? the echo is a top notch frame! ....but maybe its too long for me!? im about 5ft 10.....like to do streety moves and big drops/gaps, i also like to sidehop up stuff and be able to get up large obstacles with ease....so what is the frame for me????????please help, this is getting expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Hundley Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 If you want to bunnyhop easier then get some higher bars and stem If you wanted a nice streety frame then theres always frames such as the short Echo Control, or any frame around 1065 with no more than +20mm bottom bracket height.Long frames can be bunnyhopped etc, but it will just take some getting used to compared to short frames. Look at Neil Tunnicliffe, he bunny hops into most of his hooks.. and he's hooking over 6ft now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Davies Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 If you want to bunnyhop easier then get some higher bars and stem If you wanted a nice streety frame then theres always frames such as the short Echo Control, or any frame around 1065 with no more than +20mm bottom bracket height.Long frames can be bunnyhopped etc, but it will just take some getting used to compared to short frames. Look at Neil Tunnicliffe, he bunny hops into most of his hooks.. and he's hooking over 6ft now?cool man, thanks for the help, im a little bit out of touch with all the latest kit, what is the benefit of a long frame then? is it that they are more stable??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abtrials Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 i would say if its bunny hopps you are wanthing to do a shorter frame will be better than your long one, if you fancy a swap your long for my short pure 08 pm me dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Hundley Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 The supposedly do all the newer trials moves (taps, gap, sidehop etc) better than short bikes... I'm not convinced though, as I'm riding a short zoo stock and find everything easier on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Davies Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 just been looking on tarty and a couple of frames fit that description quite well, adament a1 short or a zoo! pitbull short.........maybe i should get one of them!?i would say if its bunny hopps you are wanthing to do a shorter frame will be better than your long one, if you fancy a swap your long for my short pure 08 pm me dudeive just got the geo off tarty and the short pure is still a bit long with a high bb .... Wheelbase: Short 1080mm, Long 1095mm Chainstay Length: 385mm BB Rise: 35mm Head Angle: 70.5 degrees Centre of BB shell to top centre of head tube: Short 640mm (25.25"), Long 655mm (25.75")i will definatly keep it in mind though dude, how old is it? mine was bought at the begining of december, been ridden a handful of times so is very good condition (now in bits as ive built the old giant up!) .....thanks for the offer, quite fancy a short pitbull though........The supposedly do all the newer trials moves (taps, gap, sidehop etc) better than short bikes... I'm not convinced though, as I'm riding a short zoo stock and find everything easier on it.how tall are you mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Hundley Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) I'm around 5'11"To be honest, height hasn't got a lot to do with it, Neil Tunnicliffe was riding a short 05 zoo pitbull, and he's over 6ft tall.Also, the wheelbase is quite often irrelevant to how long a bike will feel. Because of the slack head angle on the pure, it will feel a lot short than other long frames available. A short Echo Control will feel about the same length as your long pure, Even though the wheel base on the Echo control is 1060mm.What you have to look for is the measurement from the bottom bracket to the top of the head tube, this will tell you how long it will feel.The bottom bracket height and chainstay length will have a fair bit to do with how well it will manual etc. the longer chainstays it has, the more stable you will be on the back wheel. Also the lower bottom bracket will mean its more stable. Edited January 14, 2008 by Grant Hundley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Davies Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'm around 5'11"To be honest, height hasn't got a lot to do with it, Neil Tunnicliffe was riding a short 05 zoo pitbull, and he's over 6ft tall.Also, the wheelbase is quite often irrelevant to how long a bike will feel. Because of the slack head angle on the pure, it will feel a lot short than other long frames available. A short Echo Control will feel about the same length as your long pure, Even though the wheel base on the Echo control is 1060mm......so willthe short control be better for bunny hopping? ....or do you reckon a pitbull would be better? cheers for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Hundley Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 .....so willthe short control be better for bunny hopping? ....or do you reckon a pitbull would be better? cheers for your help Short pitbull should bunny hop better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Davies Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Short pitbull should bunny hop better cheers i will see if i can get a good price for my echo and take it from there..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abtrials Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 just been looking on tarty and a couple of frames fit that description quite well, adament a1 short or a zoo! pitbull short.........maybe i should get one of them!?ive just got the geo off tarty and the short pure is still a bit long with a high bb .... Wheelbase: Short 1080mm, Long 1095mm Chainstay Length: 385mm BB Rise: 35mm Head Angle: 70.5 degrees Centre of BB shell to top centre of head tube: Short 640mm (25.25"), Long 655mm (25.75")i will definatly keep it in mind though dude, how old is it? mine was bought at the begining of december, been ridden a handful of times so is very good condition (now in bits as ive built the old giant up!) .....thanks for the offer, quite fancy a short pitbull though........how tall are you mate?i know the wheel base is quite long on the short, but because of the head angle, 70.5 the reach is less than the pitbull making it quite a streety frame?the short pitbull has a reach of 660 and my pure is 640, so the pitbull will feel longer still. but hey only trying to help.oh mine is 3 months old, and good nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Davies Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 i know the wheel base is quite long on the short, but because of the head angle, 70.5 the reach is less than the pitbull making it quite a streety frame?the short pitbull has a reach of 660 and my pure is 640, so the pitbull will feel longer still. but hey only trying to help.oh mine is 3 months old, and good nicany dents? major scratches?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Davies Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 i have just swapped my mint pure for a control with one of my mates, its either an 06 or 07, little bit tattier than i would have liked but hey, at least i dont have to worry about selling mine now and losing loads of money, and he chucked in a hope headset which was £60 so i can't complain really, thanks for the advice guys, im going to build her up tomorrow....fingers crossed!! i have just swapped my mint pure for a control with one of my mates, its either an 06 or 07, and its a short! little bit tattier than i would have liked but hey, at least i dont have to worry about selling mine now and losing loads of money, and he chucked in a hope headset which was £60 so i can't complain really, thanks for the advice guys, im going to build her up tomorrow....fingers crossed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Davies Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 hey, i built the control up, and it didn't feel much different to the pure, apart from the bottom bracket seemed a little bit lower, so we swapped back! but he let me keep the hope headset! bargain! awayway, after messing around with my other frame, (a giant team trials) and getting jabbed in the back of the leg by the seat i decided that frame was no good either? so what now? ive got a saracen team trials M.A.D frame so i built that up and it rides so nice, (it is the silver one which normally sells at £1295 as a whole bike) the only problem is it looks like a kids bike! its ok, but the wheelbase is 965mm or something like that....really really short considering the echo was 1090! so im really not sure now, maybe a base frame? has anyone had one of these??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Ride whatever you feel comfortable on, it doesn't matter what it looks like. If you like that M.A.D then ride it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Seems like your trying to be someone your not by trying long frames that suit a techincal rider because youve seen riders on videos doing big moves on long bikes. You obviously like bunnyhops and streety moves so stick to that, a long bike doesnt make you go big, a bike that you feel comfortable on does. Look at akrigg for example hes a beast on a short bike and also danny mac who rides 24inch.If you really loved your pashley get another as ino people loved them and where riders who where beasts. If you can aford a lesson or a curtis have alook at them or may be a onza woodstock. But one of the most underated and is a cheap frame is a base and are going cheap on tarty. You want to be looking at a frame 1060 or shorter really i would say, also the reach can affect how long it feels, so you dont want a long reach or that will make it hard to pull the front up. Also your bar and stem can make a big difference. For a streety set up nice pair of risers is a must such as eastons. And a stem with alot of rise and fairly short is what street riders seems to love at the moment.hope i helped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Davies Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) Ride whatever you feel comfortable on, it doesn't matter what it looks like. If you like that M.A.D then ride it.i got the wheelbase wrong on the mad, its 1055 or something similar and to be honest i reckon it looks pretty sweet now, ive been tweaking it over the weekend and im pretty pleased with it! i have been looking at the geo of the zoo pitbull and the wheelbase on that in the short version is very similar to what ive got, i may get one in the summer....but for now i reckon hammer the M.A.D for a couple of months and just enjoy it for what it is, i mean its solid, and it seems pretty strong so hey!? im just going to ride it!!thanks for the comment Seems like your trying to be someone your not by trying long frames that suit a techincal rider because youve seen riders on videos doing big moves on long bikes. You obviously like bunnyhops and streety moves so stick to that, a long bike doesnt make you go big, a bike that you feel comfortable on does. Look at akrigg for example hes a beast on a short bike and also danny mac who rides 24inch.If you really loved your pashley get another as ino people loved them and where riders who where beasts. If you can aford a lesson or a curtis have alook at them or may be a onza woodstock. But one of the most underated and is a cheap frame is a base and are going cheap on tarty. You want to be looking at a frame 1060 or shorter really i would say, also the reach can affect how long it feels, so you dont want a long reach or that will make it hard to pull the front up. Also your bar and stem can make a big difference. For a streety set up nice pair of risers is a must such as eastons. And a stem with alot of rise and fairly short is what street riders seems to love at the moment.hope i helpedi totally agree with you mate, i wish i had started this topic before jumping in the deep end and buying a long frame, to be honest i am kind of back in the learning stages of trials as i havent ridden for 7 years so what i have got is perfectly suited to my ability......thanks for all the comments guys, i know what im after now! Edited January 27, 2008 by fatboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshleyB Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 try taking a look at the new dave cleaver frame it maybe for you ????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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