ogre Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 i hop eyou tightened the crank bolts before riding it! you should never be able to see that much bb showing, thats a very smart looking rig though! enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Huh well they seem secure. I have not tightened them, but I will before I ride it again. Which will be several days evidently due to the brake lever problem. Now TOPGEARS wants a picture of the broken lever. I've ridden the bike maybe 3 minutes, pedaled the cranks only a few times so there's no damage to the BB. I ordered new Avid 7 levers from Amazon yesterday, anticipating a jerk-around from TOPGEARS. I had tightened the lever to the bars to the point where it wouldn't rotate on the bars, I don't think that's too tight. Then when I squeezed the lever I heard a snap, and this happened. I would post a pic but I haven't figured that out. I think that I put a little twist energy into the braking which helped it to snap, but considering the purpose of the bike I think that the clamp should not have snapped at all, I think it's cheap metal. Bummed, I might have to take a lever off of my mountain board just to keep riding over the weekend. With the disc brakes, it seems they have a very long throw, is this normal or are the brake cables tensioned so that the throw is halfway engaged already, on my mountain bike I am used to brakes that engage in less than half an inch of brake lever travel, but this is several inches of lever travel before the brake engages, which I am not used to. I would rather tighten them up so that they engage rather immediately, but if they are supposed to engage when your hand is closed around the handlebar I guess I would have to keep them loose like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Oh & thanks, I do really like the looks of this bicycle & I'm digging back through "Your Complete Guide To Trials Riding" now that I've finally got the bike in my hands. Must be some bike setup tips in it. I figured out the posting pictures thing, not sure why I didn't see it before. Here's the crack, for what it's worth. Well I know what it's worth, it's a $12 crack. $12 lever on a $750 bicycle. Come to think of it, I might still be able to use this lever for my mountain board... Hmm. It would probably just break in another place, if it is bad metal. I would think that the tapped threads would have stripped out first if it were tightened too tight, Or that it would have broken when I tightened it, not later when I used it. One things for sure, stuff breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 your lever should be tight enough to stay in place, but be able to rotate in case you bin the bike, you should be able to spin the lever with your hand with a fair amount of effort. maybe the cranks are just odd, but usually on an isis BB you can't see any of the taper itself an 55s in your clip i cann see the spines, to check pop the crank bolt out and see if the crank is fully seated on the axle. lever feel is a wierd personal thing, i like the levers to come in close to the bar, others like them miles out, if you wanna reduce the travel on the lever but still have it close to the bar (my personal fave) there is a grub nut that will push the lever blade closer in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted July 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Good points you bring up Ogre I can see your point about the brake lever assembly needing to be able to rotate if I crash it into something, otherwise it would break. I'm definitely checking the BB to see that it is seated all of the way. Not all of the allen keys seem to be in the tool box right now. I ordered a set of good bike tools last week but they haven't arrived yet. Okay, about the brake levers, when riding trials, do you find yourself putting a lot of twist force on the bars while you have a brake or brakes engaged? I can see how it might make more sense to have the levers closer to the bar from the start. I'll make that adjustment with the grub nut I think, to get mine closer to the bar to start with. The only thing that I have been able to do on the bike, was to bring it up on the rear wheel and try balancing like that. I was surprised at how long it held there, the fat rear tire was a big difference compared to my mountain bike. The rear brake held fine for that, but then just stopping to get off the bike where I took the video, the clamp snapped. Thanks for the advise man, means a lot to me. My conditioning needs to improve radically if I'm going to have the muscle control at the ready to fine tune my balance on this bike. Something that I want for myself anyhow. Fun stuff! Edited July 28, 2012 by Pazu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvy Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 hi guys, firstly your new bike is lovely, so much more advanced than my bike which is only a 2003 model!! Secondly im amazed at the technology thats now on bikes, a front freewheel must feel really odd to begin with but i can see the advantages already. Im gonna keep an eye on your posts as im learning so much so quickly. just need to get my bike sorted now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Cool thanks Stuvy yes I am happy with it. Good luck with getting your bike together. I was able to check the bottom bracket bolts. Seems they are on solid but the splines don't cover completely. Pulling them when tools arrive. After a 26" setup, I'm having learn the 20" wheels just generally, they roll more abruptly or just differently over roots. Still it is coming fast, on the trail, track stand is accessible. It is a recurrent relief to lose it backwards and just put my feet down as compared to the 26" which wasn't as easy to save. Also bailing tends to stay in the general area rather than off into the woods as much which as a beginner I appreciate. Stamina is low at this point, but excitement is high. Thrilling really! Chain tension and alignment seems tricky. The bike has cams around the axle that ride against a set screw on the dropout. I relied on the current brake alignment as a start to determine the chain alignment/wheel position in the dropouts. Torquing down the axle bolts kept resulting in the chain becoming over-tensioned. Eventually it wasn't making an alignment or tension-related noise, but it seemed as sloppy as before I attempted to tighten it. I noticed on the trail that I got some chain slap noise. It looks as though the chain has some deflection; if so, would explain the persistent misalignment noises that were occurring during adjustment. I wonder if that might be related to the splines not seeming to be fully seated, would that result in the crank out of position, or perhaps something in accommodating that freewheel is resulting in its' being out of track. I need to look at that more closely. One thing seems clear, this bike & I are getting along fine! Two pictures, Any advise out there as to whether this ISIS looks seated or not, I am not sure. If not seated maybe that would explain possible alignment issue? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 it looks like the cranks could go further onto the bb axle this would give you a better chain line... no offense but your grammar is a little crazy, is english not a first language? cause it feels like a challenge to read your posts sometimes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Ouch! Thanks for the creative criticism; I will try to do better in future. Are semicolons crazy? Ha ha no problem, I'll be more clear. I have a decent set of bike tools now. I am about to pull a crank arm. EDIT - The crank arms don't seem to be seating completely on the bottom bracket spindle. I removed the left side crank arm. It fits part way on to the bottom bracket spindle. Even if the crank arm is reversed on the spindle, it will still fit part way. Yet when set properly it will not seat all of the way. I risk stripping the spindle threads if I tighten the crank arm bolt further. I may have to bring it to a local shop and see what they think. Does anyone know if ISIS cranksets have to be pressed into place with a vise prior to tightening the crank arm bolts? Is there a 12:00 position to the crank and spindle that are supposed to be lined up? Any advise would be appreciated, I haven't dealt with ISIS cranksets before. John Edited August 2, 2012 by Pazu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 usually isis cranks will press on most of the way and require nipping up with the bolt is it proper difficult to tighten them past a certain point? you may have an issue with the BB or arms, it's hard to say without seeing them myself, or having any other parts to try out with your set up, any chance a local bike shop could have a look for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 It does seem difficult to tighten the bolts more than they are. I don't want to break something. I'll have to bring it to a bike shop as you suggest. Which sucks because I have all of the tools, which I bought with the money that I would save on bike shop visits. But, like you say, I don't have other parts to try. I think that the crank arms might need milling out of the inner circumference. I might as well bring it in for a setup then, they can look at why the chain is going slack as well. I can also email TOPGEARS about this. Thanks for your advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 it'll be a simple case of trying to fit your existing cranks on any ISIS bb they have, if they fit fine, your BB is wrong, if they don't you have dodgy cranks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Rodger that, thanks. Nice smiley! I'll throw it on the car this morning and have the bike shop check it out after work. I suppose that I could just bring a crank arm but, it might be helpful if they had the whole bike there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 it won't hurt to take the whole bike, personally i'd have taken the bike to them when it arrived if i was in your position since your unfamiliar with the bikes. and learnt as things went wrong. just to be sure, in the crank photo, can you see any of the taper interface when you remove the bolt? cause you should only see the BB axle, threads for a crank puller and a tiny amount of the spline on the crank where it's meeting the bb at the tip, if you can see more than 1mm of it you've definatley got a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Not sure I follow you completely regarding the "taper interface" but I'm thinking that I can see a whole lot of it. You have to understand I'm in a small rural part of the USA; the bike shop available to me, the best & only one in the area, has never heard of Neon, never heard of Because, has no trials bikes and barely has any BMX bikes. I'm sure they have dealt with ISIS bottom brackets though. There are very few trials riders or trials bikes around here. I have never seen either. I asked around and the closest thing going on is something in Massachusetts next month, a couple hundred miles away. I doubt that this bike shop has ever seen a crank arm placed freewheel for instance. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but it will probably end up being a learning experience for the bike shop. My guess on this issue is, that either the crank arms weren't milled properly or I'm just not tightening the BB bolts enough. But, this part of the bike came already assembled; I would think that it would have been fully seated by TOPGEARS. Writing to them is next on my list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 the front freewheel, while unique to trials shouldn't be an issue for any cycle mechanic with a reasonable IQ, mods are basicly BMXs with no saddle, and different bar and stem and rear wheel size... theres nothing really special on a trials bike, it's not like a high caliber full suspension bike, it's just a very minimalist rigid bike at the end of the day. if i were you, i'd send a picture to tartybikes, and explain your situation and just ask for their opinion, your not a customer (yet ) but they'll help you out cause your a rider, from where i'm sitting as a part time cycle mechanic and bike geek, you do have a problem that they should have sorted before shipping and you would have been unlikely to have noticed without proper guidance from a forum etc. can't say alot more until you go to your lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvy Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 id ring topgears and give them an ear full, buying a bike brand new should come with no issues, seeing as they charged you extra for delivery id ask them to pick the bike up and drop it off for free! worth a try atleast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm a Tartybikes customer, I bought my guide to trials riding from them. I can try that. I heard back from TOPGEARS, I had asked if it could have been possible that I got spindle & crank arms milled to different specs, they said they weren't sure and to send pictures, so I'll do that. I'm stopping by the bike shop today, now wishing I had pulled the cranks first! Gotta keep my tool kit in the car I guess. They will charge me for pulling the crank no doubt. TOPGEARS is in China I think & they hold all of the cards, they have my $$ & I've got what they sent me. I haven't heard back from them on the brake lever issue either, they asked for a pic which I sent, then nothing. So I'm hoping that is on the way. Thanks for your having noticed that the spindle was showing in the picture, Ogre. I noticed it but, didn't think much of it at the time. Anyhow, getting to the bottom of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) I hear what you are saying Stuvy, I paid for a functional bike & that's not what they sent me! So I just got home from the bike shop, off early from work, having worked @ home late last night. The bike shop guys were sort of wide eyed over the bike ha ha! I could tell that they were happy to check it out. The old guys were all "this spacer needs to go over here" and "this is all backwards" but the younger guys got what was going on pretty quick. A younger guy covered in tattoos came out from the back and took over, looked it over, said "yep, chain definitely out of alignment, the bottom bracket is too wide for this bottom bracket shell, you need a shorter bottom bracket so that your chain will be perpendicular to the bracket spindle and axle axis." He had ridden BMX for awhile and knew right away that it was a mod. He said I should get the bike shop I bought it from to get the right bracket for the bike. I have to take a measurement of the bracket shell now I guess though everything I have measures in inches and I think it needs to be in mm. Anyhow I sent pics of the issue to TOPGEARS and told them what the bike shop said. I really want to believe in this shop TOPGEARS because I feel their prices are the lowest and their bikes are the lightest that I have seen. But, it really comes down to delivering for the customer and I don't think that they are there quite yet. Although I hope that TOPGEARS does make that snapped brake lever clamp issue right by sending me another, it isn't critical because now the Avid Dial 7 levers that I ordered, have come in. In other advice from Omer & Bob's (the bike shop), I showed them the slack chain and told them how it goes slack in the first pedal crank or so. I told them that I was a bit nervous about tightening the axle bolts too much. The tattoo guy said I had to tighten them as tight as they can get, but that if I feel it stripping, to stop before I do any damage! I thought that was funny, isn't the damage already done at that point? Edited August 2, 2012 by Pazu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 try drifting the cranks on with a mallet before you let the threads do all the work, if they go on all the way then you shouldn't have any more chain line issues... a wide BB is prety normal in trials as it gives you a wider platform to balance with, if you browse the BBs on tarty then you'll find they're mostly 128... you don't need a perfectly straight chain, but being close to perfectly true is always preferable, did you try fitting the cranks to another BB to test them out? or did they not have an isis BB in stock, it's not uncommon to run the wrong shell width bb in trials and have some of the shell poking out since you can get spacers to take up some of the slack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I had not considered that the wider stance was an advantage. Yes a spacer could go between the rear cog and the hub. I can use a piece of wood & a hammer to try your suggestion. That and a spacer, might just do enough of it. I like these cranks, they are light, I just hope that I don't blow one apart. I did see that there were 122.5mm bottom brackets available at tartybikes, something like that I suspect would be better than what I have. I thought that I might remove the whole BB, to see if the size and type are written on it. I want for this thing to be right, beginning trials is hard enough as it is. I failed to get the crank/BB fitting done. I described the situation to two of the bike store guys that I had the attention of, and told them that I showed up there to try fitting the crank arm to a different bottom bracket, to try to isolate which piece might be the issue. One of them went back & the BMX guy returned instead, I believe. Anyhow they got on the track of the BB dimension and I suppose that sort of derailed the focus, that and the bike itself. One said he thought it not unusual to have some spline showing, but he was on the other side of the counter from me, not sure that he could actually see it! They never actually produced the BB that I had asked about initially. The mechanic who took the most interest said he thought that the bike shop just didn't bother to order the right size BB for the frame, He probably didn't have any either as you say. Sorry to run on about it. Got a bit of riding in, finally remembering to decrease the pressure in the tires, which smoothed out my track stand. I have started practicing bringing the bike up and over from the track stand, but I"m going to have to put some solid hours in at this, to drive home the simple timing of locking the rear brake at the balance point while setting up for a first bounce. In a controlled fashion that is. I'll get it. I have good shoes and pads, gloves with wrist support and helmet but what I am noticing is that my ankle landings are awkward. Good on my feet but as a beginner I am not used to the weird angles. I want to get something in place for ankle support. Thanks again for helping out Ogre. I'll see if I can drift the crank arms on further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 i wouldn't ride it without the cranks fully on the bb, as they won't be evenly distributing the load, then again if your only riding small it shouldn't be an issue, but i'd be wary of it anyways. what do you mean your ankle landings are awkward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) The two pictures attached are before and after hammer time. The outdoors picture is the before. It was tricky because I had to have the other side of the bracket against a solid surface in order to tap on the front side. Anyhow they are seated as they are ever going to seat. Might've moved a fraction on the chain side, chain is a bit more slack now. The awkward landings are from falling fast off the back of the bike, leaning to one side or the other after trying to get up on the back wheel. I can tell that it wouldn't be too hard to end up with a twisted ankle from the backward and sideways momentum, particularly on irregular ground where I'm not sure what was behind me. And going over backwards from wheelies. It's not a problem, I'll just keep at it. I am also trying the idea of just bringing my weight back until the front end slowly comes off of the ground. I'm planning to try getting my front wheel on my steps and hopping off of that. I'm more or less going for rear wheel hops and generally just riding the bike, getting used to it. Riding it around a small rough trail that I have on my property. It takes maybe a minute to loop the trail. I have a few pallets that I can start experimenting with. Just need to keep doing it. A lot of my time has been spent in this troubleshooting phase. Edited August 3, 2012 by Pazu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pazu Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Hey Ogre your Ashton Effect is awesome. And that's some serious drop you pull off in the photo series, it's inspiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogre Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 cheers, although the link in my sig is to a pitbul this is the ashton with regards to the falling off and doing your ankle, thats what i did nearly 8 weeks ago just try and land with both feet on the ground and try not to go sideways and you'll be fine take the crank bolt out and take a photo of the crank, i wanna see if it's all good now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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