High Definition Cameras

[Greetings]

Alright then,

I've got quite a few buyers for my old camera which I didn't quite expect to be honest. I have been wanting to sell it in order to get a HDV camera. The more I think of it, the more unsure I am of getting one. Spent multiple hours reading through various forums, articles and all that, but this still doesn't give me a simple answer. I am currently using a semi-professional 3CCD Sony camera which is absolutely superb in terms of colours and the features it offers.

All of the cheap Sony 1080i cameras use a single CMOS chip which is said to be better than even a 3CCD setup. Although I've already done quite a lot of research on this matter, there seems to be no straight answer as to which is better. More often than not it is said that the difference is unnoticeable or that the CMOS chip is better. I'd probably accept it if not for the fact that I've been offered as much for my camera as a new HDV one costs - those also shoot in DV, are more compact and offer the same features - so where's the catch?

Throughout the past 2 years only 2 amateur Sony models have been released, the HC1 and later on the HC3. The HC1 was quickly discontinued (as was my camera for no apparent reason) despite people saying that it was actually far better than the HC3. I have looked through the images which have been provided on some Russian website, comparing both the cameras. It's a damn hard choice, both are good and both are very different. Even if I decided to get a HC1, it would be a very difficult task to buy one - there are a few up on ebay working in Never The Same Colour so that's of no use. The choice would be much easier if I was upgrading from a single CCD handycam as anything I'd get would be better.

I'm only mentioning Sony as I've stuck to this company a while back, it's also "in the family" as it were. Any opinions from those of you who actually use a HD camera of any make would be greatly appreciated. I'm especially interested in how in general they perform in bad lighting (noise etc), how the colours are and if you are satisfied with what you've got.

The last thing is editing of the material. So far I've been using uncompressed DV footage which my PC could cope with without any problem. Seeing as 1080 has a data rate of about 10gb/minute this will put a lot of stress on my computer. As a matter of fact I'm not even thinking about editing 1080, for a start it seems totally impractical unless you want some good screenshots. Will a standard IEEE 1394 cope with the data rate of say 720 footage, and will a A64 3500+ with 2gb RAM do the job? The last thing I want is to discover I have to invest another few hundred quid into upgrading my PC.

That's it for now...

edit:

Here's a comparison of the two and some images/video stills taken with it.

HC1 vs HC3 on some Russian site

Resolution chart of the HC3

Still taken with the HC1

HC3 Video still

HC3 video still 2 (not too keen on the over exposure here)

Another still, amazingly good imo

Edited January 23, 2007 by Inur

[Steve-A]

I'm so sure about the camera stuff, but editing wise you will need a good computer but probably not as much as you think.

What you need to be doing is online/offline editing. This means to capture your footage at low quality say normal standard definition DV (3.6mb/s) or lower, edit your program as you wish with no worries bout computer performance and/or hardrive space. This is offline editing. When you're happy with your finished project you can get the editing softwear to recapture only the exact footage you need at full quality (uncompressed HD is 127mb/s). Then do a final check and possibly sound mix/final graphics before exporting the finished video. This is the online stage. By using online/offline editing you minimise the time spent using the resouce intensive full quality footage. This means faster easier editing.

If your going to use this technique you need editing softwear that can support the automatic re-capturing (conforming the project) Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro do I know for sure but I'm unsure about others. You also need to make sure you dont record over your original footage, you lable and log your tapes properly and that you have consistant time code on the tapes.

[Greetings]

Liking the idea of the online and offline editing but as you wrote, one needs to keep the time code and tapes in proper order. Some of my tapes have been re-used over 60 times but then they're very cheap and keeping the footage would make watching it all over again in say 10 years quite fascinating. I use Premiere 2.0 which from what you wrote supports this feature. So when exporting the movie, Premiere will just go through my tape again and record what I have placed in the timeline, but in full definition? Sounds great.

I still wonder how the cameras are, gone through some huge reviews today and am almost certain about getting one. Once my exams finish, I'll go off to a local Sony shop and have some DV footage shot on one tape with both my camera and the HDV to compare it side by side.

Where's JJ and Bash when you need them?

[that NBR dude]

Liking the idea of the online and offline editing but as you wrote, one needs to keep the time code and tapes in proper order. Some of my tapes have been re-used over 60 times but then they're very cheap and keeping the footage would make watching it all over again in say 10 years quite fascinating. I use Premiere 2.0 which from what you wrote supports this feature. So when exporting the movie, Premiere will just go through my tape again and record what I have placed in the timeline, but in full definition? Sounds great.

I still wonder how the cameras are, gone through some huge reviews today and am almost certain about getting one. Once my exams finish, I'll go off to a local Sony shop and have some DV footage shot on one tape with both my camera and the HDV to compare it side by side.

Where's JJ and Bash when you need them?

If you are considering an HD camera, my recomendation is to go to a shop called Creative Video Productions http://www.creativevideo.co.uk. Its a big step you are taking, and a lot of money involved. CVP will book you in a private session, one to one with an expert, who will select a range of cameras, all within certain price ranges, or features. You then have ALL DAY to play around with all of them, to make sure you get the exact one you need. Theres no point rushing to a conclusion, only to find a month down the line, that something else came a bit better equipped or something.

I would say, be careful for the ones you consider. The little Sony cams may be HD and seem like a great idea, but I have my doubts about them over a better equipped standard DVCAM. If you are going to the extremes with getting an HD cam, theres no point in getting something little and pathetic. They lack the proper punch that a Z1E will produce for example, and you could very well be better off with a DVCAM or similar

[Greetings]

I would say, be careful for the ones you consider. The little Sony cams may be HD and seem like a great idea, but I have my doubts about them over a better equipped standard DVCAM. If you are going to the extremes with getting an HD cam, theres no point in getting something little and pathetic. They lack the proper punch that a Z1E will produce for example, and you could very well be better off with a DVCAM or similar

Yep, that's exactly why it's such a hard choice. The HC3 seems to me like a budget little camera for an average consumer who has no idea about what he really wants and only goes by definition. That's probably why the only way to check these cameras is to go to a showroom and have it presented which I will do shortly. These are however the only two models that are within my price range, one of which is impossible to find so there isn't much of a choice. Another thing is that I don't really want something big like the VX2100, but a fairly compact device which I can carry around.

Thanks for the link, unfortunately I'm from outside the UK so it won't be possible for me to use them

Edited January 23, 2007 by Inur

[that NBR dude]

Ahh yes should have looked at your location first really! Opps

I think the main question you have to ask yourself is... Do you NEED an HD camera?? If you are looking at something light and compact, Im guessing you wont be using it for anything professional like weddings/short films ect.

If its just for doing little trials videos and stuff, my suggestion would be to leave it for a while. HD is still very much in the early days, and not a lot of people have the technology to take advantage of it fully. Once things catch up a bit, where every house has immense download speed, and all users have HD monitors, then it may be more worth while, but by that time, the camera you have chosen will be out of date or an eighth of the price.

I use a Canon XM2, which is a fairly large-ish camera, using 3CCDs. Its ideal quality for exporting full res, and comes out crystal clear. It also has the added advantage of being completely manual, so I can adjust every variable to get the picture and sound perfect. It fitted within my budget just about, and it suits me down to the ground in what I want to use it for.

I think its worth reading into a little more, and thinking hard before you fork out that much cash, and make sure you can justify it. You could get an excellent compact DVCAM with various extras that could be spot on for your needs, for a fraction of the price of an HD cam, and have enough change to buy yourself some beers afterwards.

If you need any ideas on the kind of cams you could be looking at, add me to MSN (andy_nbr@hotmail.com) as I have tried out a fair few cams on my trip to CVP when I was looking.

[Greetings]

Ok then.

Compared both the cameras, used exactly the same settings, white balance and all that. The one thing that really annoyed me in the HDV model was that it doesn't have manual shutter speed adjustment. At least the shutter speed seems to increase automatically with better lighting conditions so it's ok for sports in daylight. To me it's pretty obvious which camera produces a better image, what do you think?

HC1000

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HC3 shooting in DV