why is every one slaging 661 they last ages, they dont cost that much or less you get the realy good ones and just dont put them in the washing machine just rinse them under the tap if they get dirty. I love 661 all my protection is 661 for downhiling, helmet, gloves, body armor, knee/shins and shoes, i stand by them and wont change except i will get a troylee lid next time.