Jitters Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi all, going to learn/start building my 26" rims. Ordering spokes today with the help of my local bike shop so I get the measurements just right without hassle.Question is, can anyone direct me or tell me what patterns work well with the front and rear rims respectively? I was thinking a 2x up front and 3x rear. Nothing fancy. Could a radial setup work for the front rim or do you think a 2x pattern would be best.Please enlighten me with your infinite trials wheel wisomnessedness or direct me to such wisdom or just let me know what works for you best.Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi all, going to learn/start building my 26" rims. Ordering spokes today with the help of my local bike shop so I get the measurements just right without hassle.Question is, can anyone direct me or tell me what patterns work well with the front and rear rims respectively? I was thinking a 2x up front and 3x rear. Nothing fancy. Could a radial setup work for the front rim or do you think a 2x pattern would be best.Please enlighten me with your infinite trials wheel wisomnessedness or direct me to such wisdom or just let me know what works for you best.Thanks!3x for the rear If youre using rim brakes only then you can get away with radial laced (although it wont take massive gaps to front wheel, although I suspect youre not doing those yet ). However if youre ever considering using a front disk you will need to cross lace, you might get away with 2x but personally I would go with 3x to be sure.Im using radial lacing with a mavic xc717 on a hope mono hub, the wheel is more than strong enough for my usage but still rather lightweight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 If you're running a disk 3 cross is the minimum unless the hub and rim are specifically designed to handle disk forces with a 2X build. If it's a 32 hole hub then I'd build it 3X everywhere. Avoid radial spoke lacing for back wheels or front wheels with disks. If the hub you're using isn't specifically designed to take radial spokes then don't lace the wheel radially even if it's on a front rim brake (The angle the spoke leaves the hub at for crossed patterns means that the spoke has a lot more material supporting its load than if it's pulling radially).My own bike has 32H wheels laced 4X by Tartybikes and they're perfect except that 4X lacing puts the spokes at such an angle leaving the hub that they lock in the head of the next spoke over from them, making replacing spokes a bit of a pain as you have to loosen spokes near the one you're replacing just to get the remains of the old spoke out and the new spoke in. On a 36H wheel 4X lacing usually doesn't lock in nearby spokes, so it's an option.If you're building wheels for the first time make use of the instructions on the sheldonbrown website and on here for building wheels. A good wheel build takes patience as it's quite a repetitive process as the spokes have to be tensioned a small amount at a time to avoid pulling the rim out of round... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitters Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Ah yes, will be using vee brakes front/rear and 32 hole Echo hubs/rims front and back. If it makes any difference it will be fixed rear hub. Forgot to mention that. Thank you for the responses so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVWOCI WVS Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Nothing fancy.If you change your mind,go for a snowflake! Here's a pattern I made up for my fixed gear bike:It's a 3 leading, 3 trailing, 3 cross snowflake with one twist.But yeah, for 32 hole on 26" wheels, standard 3 cross is the optimum build for strength and rigidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Goat Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I'm running a similar pattern to that on the front wheel of my trials bike, I didn't bother putting the twist in though. They've held up surprisingly well so far, although I don't do much front wheel stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 The snowflaked stuff won't take the shock loads from trials as well as standard lacing. Fixed hubs make no difference to the lacing required (Though if you want to get really detailed whether you have pushing or pulling spokes laced to the inside of outside of the drive side flange can have a bearing on the amount of damage the chain does if it comes off the sprockets - pushing spokes to the outside of the hub flange is probably the best for a fixed hub front freewheel and for rear freewheel setups, while the opposite is better for fixies - the difference is borderline irrelevant in reality though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I'm attempting to build wheels again for the six millionth time, it just drives me nuts........Failed twice already today I just can't seem to get it into my head, it's like teflon brainwaves, they are just sliding straight out again.Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 The quick guide:Lace wheel as required - it's quicker if you lace the spokes that go from the inside of the hub flanges first and make them all pulling spokes, as its way harder to put them in when the rest of the spokes are in. Make sure you have parallel spokes each side of the valve hole for pump access. For added pimpery the hub logo should be visible through the valve hole (Or maybe this is just me ).Set all the spoke nipples to the same position on the spokes - 1 spoke thread visible under the nipple is a good starting point. Set the flats of each spoke nipple parallel with the rim braking surface to make it easier to count turns. This also allows you to visually check the wheel for loosening spokes after it's built too.Starting at the valve hole work the full way around the wheel tightening each spoke two turns (If the spokes are really slack). When you get back to the valve hole you'll know you've made a full round. When the spokes start to get almost tensioned change to 1 turn at a time (This is about the maximum you should adjust a spoke while the spokes are carrying any kind of decent tension in wheel building anyway).When none of the spokes are slack, but not before then worry about the trueness of the wheel (If the wheel is blatantly out of true or one or two spokes are tensioned while all the rest remain slack, either the lacing is wrong, you have a couple of short spokes or you didn't start the spoke nipple in the right place). If you've laced correctly and started all the spokes at the same point there won't be a lot of adjustment needed anyway. Keep going until the spokes feel properly tight (Compare with a decent wheel you have already to get an idea how tight you can go). If you tighten a spoke too far the nipple will round before anything else fails unless you're running a really lightweight rim/hub/spokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitters Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Sweet!Saw the snowflake wheel build in the road cycling thread. That's spectacular!I won't be doing anything fancy like that though. I'll keep it as simple as possible for now.Gonna run with 3x front and rear, as suggested. I have dismantled and relaced an old road wheel in my garage for practice a few times and finally figured it out, so hopefully that will help out. Gonna run 'em into my local bike shop where they'll teach me how to true them on a nice stand. Will post the bike build pics soon, hopefully. This is nearly the last step. Everything else is just waiting, but I'm not going to rush it.Thanks for all the great replies and advice. I will also be reading up on various sites like Sheldon Brown's and this site's wiki thread on wheel building.Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trials_pimp Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Youll be fine with Radial on the front, and Radial One side on the Rear (Radial Non Drive side, 3 cross Drive Side)I used to run my trials bike with that, wheels lasted years, and Im a heavy rider and gave them tones of abuse.The Only reason I dont run like that Now As I have a front disc, and the rear wheel was ready built when I bought it, otherwise thats How I would run it.My Radial Build was a Hope mone on X517cd, front wheel, this lasted about 3 years and took tones of Abuse. Never really Bucked, and this is the wheel I learned to tap and Front wheel gap with.The rear wheel, one side radial, lasted 4 years (hub broke, not wheel) and took massive gaps with very harsh landings. (when I broke the hub, the left hand side of the rim wall was almost completey folded over most of the way round as I gap to the left, will get a picture if you want)I think radial wheels look super pimp, and are lighter (if thats your bag) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Awesome I finally did it , and got it within 1mm true on the bike with bits o zip tie and stuff.That sheldon website was cool.Thanks for pointing it out Psycholist Chuffed to bits.Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psycholist Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Glad to be of help - the other wheelbuilding guide I recommend is a book sold as a PDF here - well worth the money as it's a proper step by step guide and gives instructions on building your own truing stand and a few other handy tools:http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.phpOnce you buy it he emails you the updated versions of the book as he makes improvements too ...If you want to understand the background theory have a look at 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt too. I have a student doing similar work to part of this book for his mechanical engineering degree at the moment - he's got 3D finite element wheel models instead of 2D though, so the results are more interesting and correlate well with real world measurements too ... I still can't believe I've got away with making this stuff part of my job ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Goat Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 ^ You are a massive nerd ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitters Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Awesome I finally did it , and got it within 1mm true on the bike with bits o zip tie and stuff.That sheldon website was cool.Thanks for pointing it out Psycholist Chuffed to bits.MattWay to keep at it.Great to hear and congratulations!Hopefully I'll have good news to report soon too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitters Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Wheels built!Must be beginner's luck, but managed to lace 'em 3x right both times with the Echo label visible through the valve hole and facing the right direction on each one.Spoke tensions were a little low on the front rim and the rear dishing was off by about 3mm, but about 20 minutes and a little guidance from my bike shop guy and they're ready to roll.Thanks for all the input, suggestions, links and tips regarding this. Hope to finish building bike late tonight and maybe have some pics up tomorrow.-Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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