belga Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Hi!I've been wanting to learn trials for quite some time now, basically ever since i caught the first videoclip on youtube about two years ago. Back then i did not have a lot of money so about 12 months ago i got myself a cheap bmx to start plying around with. I had a lot of fun learning some basic stuff untill it got stolen about 4 months later. Due to the funding-issue and the fact that winter was on it's way i was not able to get a new one untill april this year. That one got stolen about 2 weeks ago.So, my obvious issues with the some of the other citizens in my town aside, i now decided to learn trials for real. My budget this time is better but i have some problems with choosing a bike. There are three concerns for me:The first one is that it has to have a seat (long story made short: It involves the mother if my future children).The second one is that i in my younger days crushed my right wrist (didn't break it, crushed it). It's fine now, but it does start hurting after longer periods of strain, usually after 2-3 hours the first day or two and then it starts dropping to 1-2 hours.The third one is my weight. I'm really heavy. It's not all bad though, i actually am what people call big bones so the short description is a brick wall covered in bubble-wrapper. This alone don't really bother me, but along with the wrist it's a bit of a hassle.With this in mind my first question is how much more difficult learning is on a bike with front suspension and if it's a hard adjustment to switch to ridgid later? The second one is if there is anything else, more specific i should be thinking of when it comes to the bike itself? The third one is availability. Trial bikes and parts here in Sweden are rare, and used ones are more or less imports starting at £1000 and up or broken. All in all, it sucks to be the one trying to learn trials around here.I don't want to order my first bike from abroad even if this does limit my choises a lot. My budget is about £500-£600 and in the end all this has me thinking about the Specialized P1 or a GT Ruckus UF 24, as that is as close to a trial bike any dealer around here has available. Would that be a bad choise? My train of thought with those are to learn the basics and if that works get a real trials bike next. Does that idéa have any merit?I have been reading up on bikes and riding in general here on TF all day (and most of the night) but any tips or help would make me a happy man. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR_Vince Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Hey man, I'm not very experienced with trials so im just going to comment about the one thing you said.About the seat thing. You say it must have a seat. But if you dont have a seat there is even more space between the stem and your jewels. When you do trials you are 99% of the time standing anyway, at least with me it is.Sorry I couldn't be more helpCheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladie Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Going back to what Vince said, yes that is quite true, about the standing up most of the time part.But having a seat isn't a bad idea, especially as you're looking at a P1 which is 26", because most trials bikes with seats you will find are either 26, or 24". I only know of a couple mods that have seats, and then not really worth looking at. And also, you say you want a bike with suspension.This would be called XC riding, not trials, (I think ..). Have a look at some video's of Ryan Leech.He rides a 26" with a seat and suspension forks.I can't really help you anymore with choosing a bike though because you say you don't want to order from abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belga Posted August 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Going back to what Vince said, yes that is quite true, about the standing up most of the time part.But having a seat isn't a bad idea, especially as you're looking at a P1 which is 26", because most trials bikes with seats you will find are either 26, or 24". I only know of a couple mods that have seats, and then not really worth looking at. And also, you say you want a bike with suspension.This would be called XC riding, not trials, (I think ..). Have a look at some video's of Ryan Leech.He rides a 26" with a seat and suspension forks.I can't really help you anymore with choosing a bike though because you say you don't want to order from abroad.The seat thing is just ridiculus, but beeing a bit of a utilitarian my girl got really cranky when i mentioned a bike with no seat and i would really love not to tick her off any more. We agreed that if i learn and get to the point where no seat is needed she would settle down about it. And to be honest, i would really like not having any suspension at all. I'm just a bit curious about it since i don't want to spend the first 6-12 months or so strenghtening my wrist before getting around to even start learning. And no matter what i do i am going to need a ride untill then so one that wont be a total waste would be nice. But if suspension is going to be a major setback then a ridgid fork it is.As for a bike i'm not really looking for a "this one" kind of tip. Call me crazy but i sort of want to do that part on my own. I do however feel i need to know more before i do. Maybe it is actually worth ordering from abroad but i feel that i am seriously lacking in the knowledge department. I was thinking more of tips and advise in terms of what would hurt me in learning and what whould help. How important is bike weight for a new rider? How much of a difference does the lenght of the chainstay do? What about the length of the frame, gears? That sort of thing. What should i be looking for and what makes one bike more or less suitable than the other except the obvious things?The P1 is in no way a done deal, it's just what's available at the moment and i know it's far from the best starting point. Which i why i'm asking all these questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Vandart Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 You can do alot of basic trials stuff with a normal mountain bike such as track stands, zap taps, bunny hops, back hops, pedal kicks etc. but more advanced stuff is alot harder.Seeing as you rekon it's gonna take you 6mnths to build up your wrist strength, I don't see why you cant get one of these bikes and do very technical XC to build up your strength and balance.Sometimes I go Xc riding on my trials bike in the forest and just look for really technical singletrack with logs,rocks, banks, roots and shit in the way and it is great fun. I could do this all on a XC if I had one.If you look at old school trials bikes planet x, pashley,pace giant etc. they are not really that much different to a 'normal' mountain bike, and there were plenty of guys that were, and are really good at trials.Ryan Leech's bike basically looks just like a normal mountain bike and he rips.Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scammell Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 hi im connor and im new and im looking for a good start bike for me can any one help me out price : £0 : £180 post back thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trialsben Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 It may be worth considering a Giant STP if you can get hold of one. Geometry is kind of a mix between an old school trials bike and a dirt jump rig. It also doesn't seem to hold Jeff Lenosky back too much!Suspension fork shouldn't be much of a problem if your getting a dj style bike as it'll probably come with Marzocchi DJ's or Rockshox Argyle which are very stiff and can take loads of abuse. They can also be almost locked out quite easily due to their air assist, a full air fork would be even better in this respect. Only problem you'll have with the sus forks are the weight really but that should be offset by the extra comfort for your wrist.I don't think a dirt jump bike will hold you back too much when your learning, maybe just put a longer stem on it and change the gearing to something a little more suitable. Also anything you can do to lighten it up a bit would help. One of mates had a Specialized P1 and it was pretty heavy although it rode really well, deffo try to get an aluminium frame over steel if you can. The trials bikes of a few years ago were just small xc bikes and it didn't seem to hold anyone back so don't be to worried about not getting a full on trials rig if it doesn't suit your needs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belga Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 You can do alot of basic trials stuff with a normal mountain bike such as track stands, zap taps, bunny hops, back hops, pedal kicks etc. but more advanced stuff is alot harder.Seeing as you rekon it's gonna take you 6mnths to build up your wrist strength, I don't see why you cant get one of these bikes and do very technical XC to build up your strength and balance.Sometimes I go Xc riding on my trials bike in the forest and just look for really technical singletrack with logs,rocks, banks, roots and shit in the way and it is great fun. I could do this all on a XC if I had one.If you look at old school trials bikes planet x, pashley,pace giant etc. they are not really that much different to a 'normal' mountain bike, and there were plenty of guys that were, and are really good at trials.Ryan Leech's bike basically looks just like a normal mountain bike and he rips.MattYeah this sounds like the idea i had for getting started. I'm still looking around and later this week i'm going out to some of the vendors to try out a few different ones. The P1 still seems to be the best suited frame around here on paper, but i figured i should try out as many as possible to find one that works and then move on to a real trial-frame for when the snow goes away (usually in march-april).It may be worth considering a Giant STP if you can get hold of one. Geometry is kind of a mix between an old school trials bike and a dirt jump rig. It also doesn't seem to hold Jeff Lenosky back too much!Suspension fork shouldn't be much of a problem if your getting a dj style bike as it'll probably come with Marzocchi DJ's or Rockshox Argyle which are very stiff and can take loads of abuse. They can also be almost locked out quite easily due to their air assist, a full air fork would be even better in this respect. Only problem you'll have with the sus forks are the weight really but that should be offset by the extra comfort for your wrist.I don't think a dirt jump bike will hold you back too much when your learning, maybe just put a longer stem on it and change the gearing to something a little more suitable. Also anything you can do to lighten it up a bit would help. One of mates had a Specialized P1 and it was pretty heavy although it rode really well, deffo try to get an aluminium frame over steel if you can. The trials bikes of a few years ago were just small xc bikes and it didn't seem to hold anyone back so don't be to worried about not getting a full on trials rig if it doesn't suit your needs! I'm almost sure one of the dealers have the STP available. Like i said above i am going to take a spin around the dealers this week so if i find one i'll make sure to try it out. Thanks for the tip.The fork on the P1 is a Marzocchi DJ3 and from what i've read it's a decent fork, even if it is a heavy one. But regardless of what bike i end up with i was thinking about lowering the weight as much as i can. New handlebars, stem and pedals. Cutting down the seatpost and so on. Not going to spend a ton of money on light-weight parts though as i'm thinking that i will be better off saving that for later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-t Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) I really wouldn't advise opting for front suspension. It really doesn't help when learning basics like basic balancing on two wheels (track standing) and is heavy. The weight of a trials bike for a beginner does not matter too much. In my honest opinion I think that a heavier starting bike is better because this allows the rider to develop a good technique faster and build the specialist strength and endurance involved in trials riding. These super light bikes that are available are aimed towards the more advanced riders who have been training for a while in the sport. As for gears, the main function of them on trials bikes is to make getting around a bit easier, not so much of the actual trials riding itself. As you can imagine you need to be aware of how the bike reacts when you pull on the bars and push down on the pedals and that becomes more difficult when you have a selection of different gears. This is why Trials riders generally have one riding gear. Popular ratios are Front sprocket - 22 rear sprocket -18, 18-15, 18-16 and 16-14. The length of the chain stays and a combination of the bottom bracket height will effect how stable and easily the bike is to hold on the back wheel. Think of it like having a short metal bar on the floor and a longer one. The shorter one will be easier to lift the distant end up if grabbed from the close end and tilted upwards due to the difference in leverage. The length of a bike affects on how it rides in many different weights. For example, a short bike (26" 1030 - 1070 area) will responds a lot better when you try to spin,turn and bunny hop it. The longer types ( 1075 upwards ) will be more suited to the more 'pure' trials moves such as side hops, front taps, gaps etc, rather than spinning and bunny hopping.If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to post.Max. Edited August 17, 2009 by max-t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie East Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 The length of a bike affects on how it rides in many different weights. For example, a short bike (26" 1030 - 1070 area) will responds a lot better when you try to spin,turn and bunny hop it. The longer types ( 1075 upwards ) will be more suited to the more 'pure' trials moves such as side hops, front taps, gaps etc, rather than spinning and bunny hopping.Can you just explain that, i understand that a shorter wheelbase is better for spinning moves but dont understand the advantages of the longer wheelbase.Ive got an echo control (1060 wb), was thinkin of gettin a longer frame, something like 1080, just wondered what differences there would be in the way it rode.Sorry for hijacking the thread belga.Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belga Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Can you just explain that, i understand that a shorter wheelbase is better for spinning moves but dont understand the advantages of the longer wheelbase.Ive got an echo control (1060 wb), was thinkin of gettin a longer frame, something like 1080, just wondered what differences there would be in the way it rode.Sorry for hijacking the thread belga.JamieNo worries, i'm curious myself so hijack away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-t Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Actions speak louder than words - Longer bike are more suited to this riding Make more sense now? Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belga Posted August 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Actions speak louder than words - Longer bike are more suited to this riding Make more sense now? Max.Yes, thanks!But i do have one question. If longer frames are better suited for gaps and such, Wouldn't there be such a thing as a too long wheelbase?Unless i am totally in the dark, gapping and jumping your bike requires also pulling the handlebars, and having a longer bike, too long, would from what i can gather make that difficult as your arms would already be higher up, thus making it harder to jump if the wheelbase is too long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-t Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Well yes, a lot depends on the height of the person to, but a bike can be too long and you can be too stretched out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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