Max Quinn Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Too popular an mainstream man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Thats a small part of it. I mean well over 90% of graphic design i see every good damn day uses Helvetica, and pretty much always uses it in the same way. Like those logos on the previous page for this project - they all look so familiar. I see them and go...''oh yeah, i'm sure i've seen that before'' - and i don't think thats necesserily always a good thing. They all look like the northface logo, or american airways, or american apparel, or (insert your own). What i hate is clearly most graphic designers think, oh yeah Helvetica, thats the type to use when you wanna lay some good ass design down, rather than going out of their way to discover their own style. If you want a simple, non-descript sans-serif typeface, there's tonnes to use, a lot nicer than Helvetica also, like... Futura, Univers, Gill Sans, Arkendez Grotesk, Interstate, Humanist, etc, etc. I'm just confused why everyone wants to produce the same thing? Well, i'm not confused - i know why they do it, but i don't know why thats as high as their aspirations lie. I think so many young British graphic designers are doing the whole Helvetica Bold, left aligned bullshit day in day out, and whilst it doesn't look bad (it often looks quite good), it'll never look great. It's just my opinion and i try not to use it in any of my professional work, as thats my approach. No one needs to agree but thats the whole point of design - you get a certain individuals creativity. IF you want generic, run of the mill, acceptable graphic design, don't ask me. I just think its too easy to copy a tired standard - its lazy and unimaginative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applesandcookies Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Couple of ideas for your perusal... No colour as wanted feedback for black and white first... Enjoy These are best imo @endhopper Please tell me there will be a trial section at the skatepark aswell! I might have a go at the logo when I can find the time, pretty busy with homework at the moment. Edit: woops, forgot that I'm on my girlfriends account. This is meant to be posted by omgnoseat . Edited March 23, 2010 by applesandcookies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronz Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) …Arkendez Grotesk… You mean Akzidenz? Ever seen the Helvetica documentary? I'm guessing so, given your opinions. It is fairly ubiquitous but it's so mainstream for a reason—it is a very good font. Too many people have a tendency to use it straight out of the box, as it were, caring very little for kerning etc. This is when its implementation is poor. Typography is more than just choosing a font, and samey looking work in Helvetica is more the designers fault than that of the face… EDIT: A nice free face between Akzidenz Grotesk and Helvetica you might like is http://www.dafont.com/Alte-Haas-Grotesk.Font Edited March 23, 2010 by Bronz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Yeah, i know the spelling is way off - also i appear to have typed (what would have been as misspelling) more misspelt than intended. I've not seen the Helvetica documentary. I've only once very briefly ever heard it mentioned. I can imagine what it may well be like though. Yes there is nothing wrong with the typeface, and of course elements such as tracking, kerning, leading etc are all available tools which often get forgotten or mislaid along the way to finish a piece of design. I agree that the lack of effort put in by many designers doesn't help with my opinions/thoughts towards Helvetica - but that isn't really the reason i'm not in favour of it. It just does nothing for me - which i guess is its intention. I'm glad it's here and all that, and often its very useful - but for forward thinking contemporary graphic design i think there are many more options. Leave Helvetica for health and safety signage. I think what annoys me about Helvetica is that obviously its a straight-edged, non-descript, say-nothing typeface but when i look at it, its like the 'R' is trying to show off........ ''i'm going to kick-out baby - screw you guys'', kinda thing. And the B always looks pregnant and lazy. I just find it hard getting past the American Apparel thing. You're right its up to the designer to use their skills and ability to work with a standard or start point to avoid cliched work, but i guess i'll just always learn towards a different starting point. But like i've been saying....thats just me, and i have to live with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronz Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 It's worth a watch, really good IMO. Most people think it's 90 mins about a font, but it's about the whole post-war design movement. Top stuff. But yeah personally I'm a fan of Helvetica, but only when used properly. I use it for headings on my site because I find it works really well, but that's as far as I'd go, even I think you can definitely overuse it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathergoodpie Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Yeah, i know the spelling is way off - also i appear to have typed (what would have been as misspelling) more misspelt than intended. I've not seen the Helvetica documentary. I've only once very briefly ever heard it mentioned. I can imagine what it may well be like though. Yes there is nothing wrong with the typeface, and of course elements such as tracking, kerning, leading etc are all available tools which often get forgotten or mislaid along the way to finish a piece of design. I agree that the lack of effort put in by many designers doesn't help with my opinions/thoughts towards Helvetica - but that isn't really the reason i'm not in favour of it. It just does nothing for me - which i guess is its intention. I'm glad it's here and all that, and often its very useful - but for forward thinking contemporary graphic design i think there are many more options. Leave Helvetica for health and safety signage. I think what annoys me about Helvetica is that obviously its a straight-edged, non-descript, say-nothing typeface but when i look at it, its like the 'R' is trying to show off........ ''i'm going to kick-out baby - screw you guys'', kinda thing. And the B always looks pregnant and lazy. I just find it hard getting past the American Apparel thing. You're right its up to the designer to use their skills and ability to work with a standard or start point to avoid cliched work, but i guess i'll just always learn towards a different starting point. But like i've been saying....thats just me, and i have to live with me! No offence, but with every post of yours I read in this thread you are becoming more and more pretentious. Stop trying to impress people with your knowledge of typography because I for one can see right through it. He just wants a logo doing not a f**king essay on the pros and cons of post-modernist swiss letterforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Rite...............touch dramatic that don't you reckon? It was a response to Bronz, so it wasn't for you nosey! Also it's not for the topic started either. I've contributed a couple of bits for him - i'm not trying to teach him anything - nor did i intend him to read my last post as it wasn't written for him. What exactly can you see through my love? Also if you're not after a ''f**king essay'' - don't read it. Also, loved your ending about me trying to show off which you quickly super-seeded by telling all the typefaces country of origin.....not trying to show off are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Quinn Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 To be fair this is a discussion forum, and if everything just stayed on topic it would be pretty f**kin borin. Not to mention I think he's making a good point pretty well, whereas you're just beefing about him being pretentious and trying to impress with his typo knowledge, then straight after dropping bombs like 'i for one can see right through it' and 'post modernist swiss letterforms'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) I'm glad someone else noticed that. Thought i might be being touche. Also, another thing. What's the point of starting a fairly aggressive post with ''no offense.....'' What's wrong with causing offense, you can happily intent it with offence if you want. Its such a stupid caveat to introduce, you may as well say.........''I'm going to be rude about you and insult you, but you're not allowed to get upset by it''! Man up - if you stand by your beliefs then say it with conviction - i'm not overly taken a back by your opinion(s), but if you're forthright and intelligent with it, then i'll certainly take it on board. As you were neither of those, i'll pass on 'em for now cheers bub. Edited March 23, 2010 by Matthew62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathergoodpie Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Rite...............touch dramatic that don't you reckon? It was a response to Bronz, so it wasn't for you nosey! Also it's not for the topic started either. I've contributed a couple of bits for him - i'm not trying to teach him anything - nor did i intend him to read my last post as it wasn't written for him. What exactly can you see through my love? Also if you're not after a ''f**king essay'' - don't read it. Also, loved your ending about me trying to show off which you quickly super-seeded by telling all the typefaces country of origin.....not trying to show off are we? ...Or perhaps I was being Ironic Anyways, just saying seemed a little ott reading your posts thats all, you know exactly what I mean. Actually quite like the design. You are writing on a forum! How can you say I'm being nosey! Kinda misses the point of a forum. Nuff beef anyway, was just pointing out an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Irony /irni/ • noun (pl. ironies) 1 the expression of meaning through the use of language which normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous effect. Didn't raise much of a giggle, so, um no..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathergoodpie Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 C'mon, dictionary definitions? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathergoodpie Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 lol As I said, probably not what you intended, but thats how you were coming across. Apologies if I got your back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 None taken in the slightest. I was coming across like that to you - perhaps not everyone else. Equally it may have been felt the same as you by most others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathergoodpie Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Lets do the happy dance. With singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webber Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Is all this helvetica lark aimed at my particular contribution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endohopper Posted March 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 @endhopper Please tell me there will be a trial section at the skatepark aswell! I might have a go at the logo when I can find the time, pretty busy with homework at the moment. Damned right ! The whole thing started as a small scale " hey let's chuck some pallets in a small building somewhere" - as it is now we have a huge hangar / garage of which a sizeable zone will be trials related stuff . Trials being as unknown as it is in Holland , that section should draw weird glances from the skaters / BMXers who are to be our customers . Some of these are killer designs , glad I asked for help ' cause I'd have embarrased myself if I'd gone with the original idea . What is the file format I'd need to be able to scale it up / down for letterheads / flags / etc without losing quality ? Thanks again for your ideas and efforts ( !!!rainbow Comic Sans underlined !!! ) this whole thing from desolate biking scene to almost complete indoor park really is the result of donations and positive humans being surprisingly helpful and encouraging . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applesandcookies Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Damned right ! The whole thing started as a small scale " hey let's chuck some pallets in a small building somewhere" - as it is now we have a huge hangar / garage of which a sizeable zone will be trials related stuff . Trials being as unknown as it is in Holland , that section should draw weird glances from the skaters / BMXers who are to be our customers . Some of these are killer designs , glad I asked for help ' cause I'd have embarrased myself if I'd gone with the original idea . What is the file format I'd need to be able to scale it up / down for letterheads / flags / etc without losing quality ? Thanks again for your ideas and efforts ( !!!rainbow Comic Sans underlined !!! ) this whole thing from desolate biking scene to almost complete indoor park really is the result of donations and positive humans being surprisingly helpful and encouraging . Alright! sounds promising The format you need is either .ai (adobe illustrator file) or .pdf (adobe reader file). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hitcher Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Damned right ! The whole thing started as a small scale " hey let's chuck some pallets in a small building somewhere" - as it is now we have a huge hangar / garage of which a sizeable zone will be trials related stuff . Trials being as unknown as it is in Holland , that section should draw weird glances from the skaters / BMXers who are to be our customers . Some of these are killer designs , glad I asked for help ' cause I'd have embarrased myself if I'd gone with the original idea . What is the file format I'd need to be able to scale it up / down for letterheads / flags / etc without losing quality ? Thanks again for your ideas and efforts ( !!!rainbow Comic Sans underlined !!! ) this whole thing from desolate biking scene to almost complete indoor park really is the result of donations and positive humans being surprisingly helpful and encouraging . You want a vector file, so really an eps file would be fine. I havent used helvetica, though it is a variation on it called "coolvetica", although theres nothing wrong with it, its a great modern font. Though I much prefer Avenir, Ahoy ahoy typography nerds, unite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstant Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 It's worth a watch, really good IMO. Most people think it's 90 mins about a font, but it's about the whole post-war design movement. Top stuff. But yeah personally I'm a fan of Helvetica, but only when used properly. I use it for headings on my site because I find it works really well, but that's as far as I'd go, even I think you can definitely overuse it. I'm glad to see this has turned into a Helvetica debate. +1 for watching the documentary - you should be able to find somewhere for free online. There is a time and a place for Helvetica and it's a shame that people are ruining the image of such an iconic typeface by using for everything. However, considering people in this thread are working for free, I think some of the Helvetica based designs are perfectly respectable. You want a vector file, so really an eps file would be fine. I havent used helvetica, though it is a variation on it called "coolvetica", although theres nothing wrong with it, its a great modern font. Though I much prefer Avenir, Ahoy ahoy typography nerds, unite! +1 for eps or similar vector format I'm not keen on coolvetica, but I do quite like Sketchetica, which I think is available for free & legitimate download. My favourite sans at the moment is Myriad which is what I use on my site thanks to Cufon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathergoodpie Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) You want a vector file, so really an eps file would be fine. I havent used helvetica, though it is a variation on it called "coolvetica", although theres nothing wrong with it, its a great modern font. Though I much prefer Avenir, Ahoy ahoy typography nerds, unite! Good call on Avenir, nice typeface that, particularly the uppercase. Edited March 23, 2010 by rathergoodpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew62 Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Jesus, isn't this turning all a bit avant-garde...................... see what i did there? Did you though? Also Myriad sucks balls. Edited March 23, 2010 by Matthew62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rathergoodpie Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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