Marino Questions

[LEON]

Yea have a re calculation and see what your reach is with the new wb & headangle.

The bb height is preference really, a lower one will favour bunnyhops/manuals/balance as your centre of gravity is lower, in exchange for a bit more ground clearance/bit better on back wheel, personally I'd take the first lot eveytime, but if you want a mix of both, you'll basically have a zebdi + about 15mm bb height, which i suppose is a bit like the old Ashton Justice.

Edited November 16, 2010 by LEON

[Brettoll]

Yeah I have emailed him some new geometry figures so lets see.

Thanks for your input Leon

[Ali C]

If it's pure street stuff you're after I think 1035 is too long with 385 stays, remember the old school bikes gone by, alot of those had 395-400mm stays, and taking so much off your rear end will just add it to the top tube length as you're keeping the same wheelbase, effectively pulling up like a bike with a 1045-1050 wb in regards to reach and slightly longer stays, see what I mean? I've been there, mine's 385 stays with 1015 wb and I would happily take 10mm off the front triangle if I could.

Also 74 deg is pretty effing steep, about as steep as it gets without being a micro scooter! Bunyhop suicide, I'm warning you it will not bunnyhop! lol, what exactly do you want it to do? I made the mistake with my first few marino's.

When considering wheelbase/reach you have to take into account bikes have lost 10-15mm off the rear end in the last 10 years, this doesn't affect your reach, but the 10-15mm you'll be adding to the top tube will make all the difference.

Long stays make a bike far worse on the back wheel than a short wheelbase, so don't think it's gonna backhop like crap just because it's short, mine feels fine with the 385 stays and it's only 1015 wb, personally I wouldn't go any shorter as it can feel unstable with high speed bunnyhops to manuals etc, quite twitchy.

a steep headangle doesn't make for bad bunnyhops. My inspired is 73degrees and I can bunnyhop 50" over a bar on it and I would actually like it a tad steeper if anything! You have a low bb on your bike, that extends the reach. If you steepen the headangle and raise the bb the reach doesn't get effected as much.

Sorter chainstays and a higher bb make it easier for hops too as the movement of the hop happens a lot faster. A bunnyhop is an explosive move, just like a gap, the faster the acceleration the better for distance/height, Yes it will make it slightly twitchy for manuals but that will make it easier to to turn while in a manual and even spin out of them too. why anyone would want a "stable" bike for street use is beyond me. The other advantage is that the shorter high rear also makes it pretty good for trials usage too. 385 rear end is fine, I would deffo not go longer than that, maybe 380 would be a good comprimise.

[LEON]

50"? I'm pretty sure that would make you the world record holder...

I agree with shorter stays the better, 385 is just my preference, plenty short for me but plenty of people will wanna go shorter, I grew up riding bikes with almost 400mm stays, I also had seat, brake clearance issues.

Maybe a 0 rise bb would be ok for me but anything towards +20 I just don't agree with.

I don't agree that a high bb cancels out a steep head angle for bunnyhops either, some bikes have such a short front end that a high bb would just cramp the riding position so the bike needs about 3 feet of spacers, a 25 deg stem and 3" inch risers, which to me feels horrible and looks crap too.

Edited November 17, 2010 by LEON

[Ali C]

I have been in touch with Guinness, but they seem to think that a bunnyhop is the same as a sidehop which is rather annoying.

the high bb and steep headagle thing, I am on about the reach. if you have a lower bb it will make the reach longer. You sound like you are rather oldschool in your preferences with a low bb and then a slack head angle to make the reach short again. all I am saying is that if you make the bb higher to make the bike spin and pop better, then you can make the head angle steeper to give tighter steering and more control when doing front wheel moves and still have a short enough reach to be able to bunnyhop.

Yes you may need to add a spacer or two (I love high front ends, makes it feel more like a bmx cockpit) but that's a small price to pay.

[LEON]

I am very old school yea, and just don't feel convinced by anything that's been released post-zebdi.

Rode a couple of fourplays and hated them both.

I do know what you mean about the reach but I just don't like being sat that high on a bike & feel it goes against the way I ride, I don't do any tgs & I can't remember the last time I did a sidehop, so my bike is 90% biased towards being short & compact.

2 Marino frames ago I had a zero bb and 1025 wb, which is pretty modern for me, and again I just hated it, got the geo wrong and got rid of it, my feet just felt too high and no amount of front end height could counter it, actually felt miserable trying to ride it lol. But 1omm off the bb and 10mm off the front has changed everything. I'm definitely not moving with the times lol but from what I've ridden of the new bikes I just prefer bikes how they were (minus the 6ft chaintays)

It appears I owned the correct bikes over the years to keep me thinking this way.

Edited November 17, 2010 by LEON

[Ali C]

I had go on an old Ashton Justice recently, one with a 0bb hight. It felt like my legs were too far in front of me when on the backwheel. Made it feel really strange to do anything spinny.