kaybs41282 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Hi everyone, I am considering switching to a rear v as I am so sick of faffing with HS33's and can just not seem to get them how I want them. What are the pros and cons for this? Is there any particular reason why a HS33 is better than a v or why I shouldn't change? I have 4 bolts for a magura set up, presumably I need some sort of adaptor to fit a v onto it? Also, if you have any recommendations for set up that would be great as to what type of lever, calipers, booster, cables etc are best for a trials set up. Thanks in advance, I've used v's for years but never on a trials bike so all help is gratefully received. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 They dont bite as much as maguras but they do hold better (when set up well), use a decent cable such as a linear slic or use oversized gear cable outer with a good inner. You will need adaptors, not sure on whats the best these days but the heatsink ones are generally considered very good. You will also do well to get a booster, the old carbon xtr ones are very good but pretty rare now. Personally Ive used SD7 arms and lever without any problems, AliC used xt arms on the rear because theyre lower profile to give more ankle/crank clearance. Dont use any arms with a parallel linkage setup, they dont last long with the movement/forces applied from trials riding. Set the pads as square as possible and get them hitting the rim at the same time - you should know this if youve been using them before though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKidney Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I swear by maguras, however Vees set up correctly can be amazing. Could you give us an idea of what setup your running? Frame, clamps, what bleed, pads and rim. If you are going to change to vee, you will need some 4-bolt to Vee adaptors as you mentioned, and a decent set of callipers. Best setup Ive felt and used was; Avid SD7 Lever. Linear cable inside a shimano gear outer cable. Avid SD7 Callipers Some homemade booster Inspired Clear Vee Pads, Light grind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaybs41282 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Cool thanks...current set up is a Simtra ST1 frame with water bled HS33, tensile off set clamps, and echo 2 bolt booster on the back. Light grind on a V!Z rim and heatsink yellows. When the maguras are set up they are sweet but I just seem to be fighting against problems which takes time away from riding. Current problem is sticky right piston that doesn't even retract (until forced) when the pad is clipped in. I would like to continue to use the HS33 but just seem to hit problems. Any thoughts on the sticky piston issue would be cool too lol Edited June 16, 2011 by kaybs41282 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Cool thanks...current set up is a Simtra ST1 frame with water bled HS33, tensile off set clamps, and echo 2 bolt booster on the back. Light grind on a V!Z rim and heatsink yellows. When the maguras are set up they are sweet but I just seem to be fighting against problems which takes time away from riding. Current problem is sticky right piston that doesn't even retract (until forced) when the pad is clipped in. I would like to continue to use the HS33 but just seem to hit problems. Any thoughts on the sticky piston issue would be cool too lol Is the pad backing binding agains the slave guides or is the piston slow with the pad removed aswell? Have you overtightend the clamps? In my experience of using maguras over the last twelve years is that they dont need to be tightened up too much as long as your plastic washers arent completely mullered; theyre only fixed by a pair of M4 screws which gives a good indication that theyre not even meant to be torqued up massively. If the piston is still sticky with the pad off and clamps loose, remove the hoses, blow the water out and fill the slave with oil (a light cycle oil will suffice), pull the piston out with a pair of pliers on the pad nipple (be careful not to snap it off!) and cycle it back and forward several times. Put it back together and rebleed with water again, dont worry about an oil remenants left in there, it shouldnt really affect the bleed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaybs41282 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Is the pad backing binding agains the slave guides or is the piston slow with the pad removed aswell? Have you overtightend the clamps? In my experience of using maguras over the last twelve years is that they dont need to be tightened up too much as long as your plastic washers arent completely mullered; theyre only fixed by a pair of M4 screws which gives a good indication that theyre not even meant to be torqued up massively. If the piston is still sticky with the pad off and clamps loose, remove the hoses, blow the water out and fill the slave with oil (a light cycle oil will suffice), pull the piston out with a pair of pliers on the pad nipple (be careful not to snap it off!) and cycle it back and forward several times. Put it back together and rebleed with water again, dont worry about an oil remenants left in there, it shouldnt really affect the bleed. Yeah it is slower than the other side (and when not clamped in) but when you put the pad on it just doesn't retract on one side...I'll check that it isn't catching though too. Sorry if this is an obvious question but why do I need to empty the water and fill with oil after removing hoses etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yeah it is slower than the other side (and when not clamped in) but when you put the pad on it just doesn't retract on one side...I'll check that it isn't catching though too. Sorry if this is an obvious question but why do I need to empty the water and fill with oil after removing hoses etc? Check the backing isnt too tight in the housing and file away the guides on the slave if its catching. Water on its own doesnt lubricate, hydraulic seals need to be lubricated otherwise they can bind up. Putting the oil in there and pumping the piston back and forth will lubricate the seals, leaving some oil in there when you rebleed it with water will mean that at least some oil will be getting to the seals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaybs41282 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Check the backing isnt too tight in the housing and file away the guides on the slave if its catching. Water on its own doesnt lubricate, hydraulic seals need to be lubricated otherwise they can bind up. Putting the oil in there and pumping the piston back and forth will lubricate the seals, leaving some oil in there when you rebleed it with water will mean that at least some oil will be getting to the seals I'll give that a whirl thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam T Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 You dont have to remove the hoses to sort out a sticky piston. Simply take the brake pad off the cyclinder which is sticky, and hole the other cylinder with the pad still in. The sticky piston will come out its full length, lightly oil it and pump it a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaybs41282 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 You dont have to remove the hoses to sort out a sticky piston. Simply take the brake pad off the cyclinder which is sticky, and hole the other cylinder with the pad still in. The sticky piston will come out its full length, lightly oil it and pump it a few times. Tried that dude...it works fine if you hold the other one and works a bit better but is a bit slower...but I can put up with it being slower...its the fact that it won't retract when the pad is on that makes me think the pad is catching...like forteh said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) You dont have to remove the hoses to sort out a sticky piston. Simply take the brake pad off the cyclinder which is sticky, and hole the other cylinder with the pad still in. The sticky piston will come out its full length, lightly oil it and pump it a few times. Have you not realised that the point of a seal is that it seals from one atmosphere to another. Any oil on the outside of the piston will not lubricate the seal inside the slave Edited June 16, 2011 by forteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaybs41282 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Update - filed the guides but it didn't make any difference. They retract to a certain point and then just do not go any further and there is always a gap between the pad backing and the slave. I'm going to try re-bleeding with Magura oil tonight to see if that makes any difference but if that doesn't work is it worth just biting the bullet and buying a new slave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Update - filed the guides but it didn't make any difference. They retract to a certain point and then just do not go any further and there is always a gap between the pad backing and the slave. I'm going to try re-bleeding with Magura oil tonight to see if that makes any difference but if that doesn't work is it worth just biting the bullet and buying a new slave? Sounds like it Im afraid Perhaps the slave pistons have swollen in the water sufficiently to bind on the seals, I dont think there is a lot you can do about that though; perhaps tarty will have some suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaybs41282 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Sounds like it Im afraid Perhaps the slave pistons have swollen in the water sufficiently to bind on the seals, I dont think there is a lot you can do about that though; perhaps tarty will have some suggestions. I may refer back to the original topic...anyone got any v-brake bits for sale? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Dunstan Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 You think setting up a magura 4-bolt is irritating, then a Vee is going to drive you mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forteh Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 You think setting up a magura 4-bolt is irritating, then a Vee is going to drive you mad. Why? Put the arms on with the pads loose, hold pads against the rim with fingers, tighten up pads, set spring tension so the pads hit at the same time jobs done - takes about 3 minutes to properly set up a vee brake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Dunstan Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Why? Put the arms on with the pads loose, hold pads against the rim with fingers, tighten up pads, set spring tension so the pads hit at the same time jobs done - takes about 3 minutes to properly set up a vee brake Takes about 3 when you set up a 4-bolt properly. My point being that neither are complicated, and he shouldn't find setting up a 4-bolt that much of a hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaybs41282 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Takes about 3 when you set up a 4-bolt properly. My point being that neither are complicated, and he shouldn't find setting up a 4-bolt that much of a hassle. The attraction with V's are that I have more experience with them and am more confident at setting them up. I'e never managed to get the HS33's to how I want them (bite with very little pull on the lever) which I always did with v brakes. I just seem to spend more time fiddling with the maguras than riding...its becoming obsessive! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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